xicadelliberation

[xicadel]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
No "real, inherent self" = the flow of awareness, the primal, cosmic life force that moves through everything, always, in a zillion different ways

What are you looking for at LU?
I have glimpsed "no self", and wish to have a deeper experience of it so that it is more part of how I orient toward daily life. I am choosing to work toward what I think of as "total liberation" - deprogramming myself, deconstructing myself, to understand consciousness itself.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope for guidance to experience no self more deeply, and guidance toward experience of nonduality. Please ask me good questions or call me on my bullshit I can't see for myself! I know I am "smart" and sometimes that gets in the way. I can analyze til the cows come home and LOVE doing it! I have worked hard to become as fully alive as possible and I get so much joy and satisfaction out of "being me" that I am scared I will have to let go of all that fun. However, the fun doesn't move me closer to the experience of liberation, realization of nonduality. I sense an even greater joy available if I move to a different level of "me" that is "not me" -- that is bigger than "me." Words are challenging here... I hope a guide can help me along the path toward liberation from "me."

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Some meditation, lots of work with altered states of consciousness, mostly via psychedelics but also dance, drumming, dreaming and being in nature. Some knowledge of various religious traditions. Some knowledge of Buddhist concepts. Seeking spiritual growth for almost a decade.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[Elad]

Hi, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Before we can start we need agreement on a few things, please consider them carefully:

1. During this process you will only attend to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. You are not meant to rely on belief in anything, including what Liberation Unleashed or I say, or even your own memories of past experiences, only on a deepening clarification of your direct experience. I will ask you questions and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look at questions, do experiments presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty. If you are up to doing that, this process will flow where it needs to flow naturally.

3. Please read the following documents from LU and make sure you are on board with their content:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, with a sense of mutual commitment, I ask you to answer on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where you cannot report on how the exploration is moving, send a message here on the thread to say so. If you know that this does not fit your life rhythm or preferences let me know and another guide will work with you.


5. LU aims to help people get to the place where it feels clear beyond doubt that there is no separate self/doer/me. It does not aim to reach a place where there is no "sense of self" at all (typically it is there, and known upon looking in direct experience not to be a separate self or doer). LU also does not aim to reach a state where there are ongoingly no perceptual filters at all, no "filters" creating the sense of inside and outside in everyday life, and such. These might happen, but are not what is aimed for. Maybe you have all ready reached what LU aims to help clarify. How do you react to that, and what do you see to be the case?

What may I call you here?



Warmly,
Elad

[xicadel]

Hi Elad,

You can call me Xica. I read the two web pages. This process is very important to me. I work full-time and some days I am at work for 10-12 hours and unable to be online. However, I will do my best to engage in this as a daily practice. I am confident most days I will be able to bring my attention to my direct experience to engage in the process. I'll be honest.
I am learning to examine my concepts of separate self. Even beginning a conversation about it with you I feel both fear and excitement.
I trust the process will flow were it needs to.

[Elad]

Hi Xica, great, lets go! From here please answer all questions and experiments/exercises that I ask in blue font. If something is too much for your time, just let me know and we will adjust. If you cannot answer on a particular day, just touch space here the day before or on the day and say so. Being busy is fully compatible with this process. Just take many short moments during the day of looking at actual experience, without controlling or efforting, not even to try to maintain a state of looking or maintain an insight or a "being in touch with something", just looking and seeing what is happening by itself in Actual Experience. Actual experience, from here referred to as AE, is just the five senses and the movement of thoughts (as opposed to believing the content of the thoughts). Now:

Tell me more about your fears and anxieties regarding this process. Please just write what comes to mind without deliberating or censoring, free flow. It doesn't even matter if what turns up in the sentences later turns out to be 'not true'. The main thing here is what seen in the process, not the content of the sentences.

Looking forward to walk with you!
Elad

[xicadel]

Elad,

Thank you for your time and energy toward this. And thank you so much for the idea that whatever I write does not have to be "true"! I feel such a wash of relief and relaxation as I read that.
As I feel into what you posed, this is what I am aware of: I have an assumption that a realization of nondualism will untether me from my usual grounded state (how I move thru the world, what has enabled me to achieve in the world). My direct experience is a bit of light-headedness, as if my head is moving ever so slightly. It does not feel bad. It does not feel scary. I could label it "ungrounded." I also feel my breath filling my lungs quite naturally and my weight on the chair, my body whole and alive. My body feels 90% grounded, here. As I notice that the lightheadedness doesn't go away, but I become aware of tightness around my eyes and throat. A subtle feeling of tears coming. A touch of sadness is arising, accompanied by a story that I am lonely, alone. Twinges of fear, doubt, sadness, despair that I will always feel this aloneness and be held back by it.

[Elad]

Hi Xica, this is great honest and attentive.

1)How do you react if I tell you that this inquiry into no-self should not contradict your actions and feelings for your benefit in the normal life in any way. I.e. this is not supposed to go against your interest in and motivation for whatever grounds you and give you joy in life. It also should not go against thinking about your goals, planning, comitting, etc. It also should not go against any joyful sense of self and sense of dreams in life. How do you react? Write again what spontaneously come up without controlling or censuring.

2) Why do you want to see through the illusion of a separate self? Please be really honest and write from the heart, be open that your answers might surprise you. Be open you might discover your will or motivation is different then you thought (not that it necessarily is). And again, this does not have to be ultimately true, what is important is what is seen while writing.


Warmly,
Elad

[xicadel]

Thanks Elad.

Hearing that an inquiry into no self will not diminish my capacity to be responsible, or my capacity for joy, leads me to some interesting places. A twinge of relief, a lot of doubt that what you say is true, and a feeling that (and yes this surprises me) perhaps this is a self-indulgent wish of mine to discover nondual self. Arrogant to think I can do it, and feeling a (maybe 10%) wish that it could lead me to greater happiness.

(side note: I mentioned this topic to a friend recently and mentioned how I struggle with this fear of "awakening." His answer was that when I truly awaken I will be full of love and my capacity will be greater. Is that true? I can imagine my capacities will be greater. I have my doubts about the love part. Maybe. But it seems I will be even fuller of ALL emotions. That has been my experience so far. "Awakening" is NOT all love and light and cute puppy dogs.There is a lot of suffering in the world... my glimpses of nondual self lead me to feeling the suffering of others as if it is my own. It fucking sucks. The immensity of it is intense.

Back to the questions. Sadness arises. Am I trying to fix my loneliness? perhaps. Am I trying to be special so I can offer something that I feel is needed to others ... trying to gain my own sense of freedom from separate self so that I can lead others to it...? I DO feel this is incredibly important as the world burns down and we humans don't do anything about it. But maybe I am full of ego to think if I attain a kind of awareness about nondual being / no self I could lead others to healing around this. I see it as a wound we all carry - a wound and also a unique glorious part of being human that we experience ourselves (I experience myself) as a self who is unique and apart from other beings.

I know it is ok to have all these doubts and misgivings. As I write I look out the window at some trees I live with and I am touched by what seems to me to be their steadfastness, as if they are with me, calmly holding me here on this land without judgment. I feel close to them... and yet still separate: They. Me.

Which reminds me of a favorite saying "dualism is only a problem if you think it is real." As I dig into this I discover a belief that I will feel something physically, not just know something mentally, about no self. That is an interesting discovery. As if only what I can feel in my body is "real", while what I can think may be an illusion. Maybe discovering no self is deeper than either body or mind...?

[Elad]

Hi Xica. Thanks, the honesty is great. What was meant to be imparted, is that this in no way is about getting "lofty" or "transcendent" or "mystical" or even into some "oneness" that denies, neglects or devalues ordinary care and responsibility. This is only about looking for what is real in a very down to earth way, within the normal experience, the five senses and the movement of thought, nothing about mystical expansive stuff outside what you have experienced your whole life. Just getting clear about what has been there all along in the most ordinary experience.

From here, for the purposes of this investigation, are you willing to set aside the expectations and hopes you just shared about how it will be, for now forget about the thoughts about great compassion, no loneliness, etc., all this will keep you in fantasy-and-emotion-about-fantasy-land, and only focus on getting to what is real, is there an actual separate self in your direct experience?

Assuming you are willing (but let me know if you are not), answer these questions:

Can you find a separate self or a doer anywhere in direct experience?

There are all kinds of thoughts, many about self, there are sensations, but can you see that none of that is a separate enduring self/a doer in actual experience?

Don't expect or look for any special feeling in the recognition. Get sober. Just check: Can you see that this is true, this separate self is just a deeply held belief. I remind you also, that we are not here to theorize about the existence or function of self, we are here to see what you can see in actual experience.

Direct/Actual Experience - Labelling Daily Activities


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you
can. Label daily activities simply image/sight, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.
So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/sight
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct
experience).

One time during the day, sit down for 10 minutes, notice things, and write to me about it, in the format/structure above, so for example:

Seeing screen, simply= sight
Hearing AC, simple= sound
Hearing bird, simply= sound
Feeling coolness on legs, simply= sensation

Etc.

Let me know what is noticed in experimenting with this.

[xicadel]

Whew, thanks for reining me in a tad! I can get way distracted by mental stuff/concepts.
Okay, labeling direct experience. Sight. Smell. Sound. Thoughts. I will absolutely do this.
Tomorrow I have a client all day and probably cannot correspond, but I will attend to this activity to see what I notice. No judgment, just noticing.
Thank you so much for your time and guidance.

[Elad]

You are most welcome Xica. All the thoughts and feelings you shared expressed a depth of sensitivity and an experiential openness and honesty that is most conducive to this. And it was great you were open also about the doubting of me. Honest communication is key here, as well as you sticking to what is seen in your direct experience, not what I say. So yes, as we keep attending to AE with honesty and precision we will flow as needed and what is will become clearer and clearer. Look forward to your responses.

Oh and by the way, just curious, where are you in the world?

[xicadel]

Hi Elad,

I am in the US, in southern Vermont. You?

The "homework" has been hard. I can feel myself flit around my senses: seeing, hearing, sensing touch, thinking. Difficult to focus, difficult to stay aware, difficult not to judge, or interpret, or make up some meaning about my experience. I have had the deepest experiences when I try to notice one sense at a time. At night when I only listen (dark so no visual) and focus on noticing I am hearing, or day when I see and am aware of "seeing" I have had moments that feel like um, pure awareness? I dunno. Tiny moments when the seeing and what is seen are indistinguishable. Very fleeting moments. More often, I am in my head and unable to simply notice the sensing. I want to keep trying. It feels spacious.

[Elad]

Hi Xica, good start. A few things:

- please remember answering every question in blue. So, go back to last text from me with questions in blue and answer *all questions in blue* as best you can. It's fine you can't answer. It's the doing your very best with dedication and honesty, not trying to get some experience or anything special, and seeing what happens, that counts. No failure here as long as you show up.

- its not about having a special experience of only one sense or no thoughts or anything like that. Keep it simple. Just do as it's written in the exercise. So for example right now, here:

AC humming in the room, simply = sound
Heat of blanket on the legs, simply = sensation
Etc.

Do the written exercise as asked. Answer all questions. When you practice during the day as you are on the go, just notice particular sense aspects of "this unfolding" and say inside: sound, sight, sensation, sight, sound, sound, sight, sensation, thought, sensation, etc. Don't try to make an experience where there are surely not other senses and maybe thought, don't try to make anything last. Just notice dominant AE, one after another.

- Remember, if you cannot report on a day, touch space, let me know before or on the day. So if you say I'll be gone one day, it means one day, not two. Of course this could slip here and there, but let it be the exception.

I'm in Israel. Look forward to your answers.

[xicadel]

Was I gone two days? My apologies. I thought I missed one whole day and then I wrote on day two (late in the day).
I've copied the questions in blue to stick to them and record my experience. Thanks!

[xicadel]

Morning shower:

seeing water on wall: simply = image/sight
feeling heat on my body: simply = sensation
hearing sound of fan in bathroom: simply = sound
hearing sound of water: simply = sound
feel of water on scalp: simply = sensation
feel of feet on bath matt: simply = sensation

I won't be able to correspond til late tomorrow night (which may be a day late in your half of the world)

[Elad]

Hi Xica,

Thank you for the heads up re tomorrow. And re message before, seems like what here is two days was "one long day" at yours, thanks for explaining.

Re shower, good looking, you got it. Was that 10 min writing in that format though? If not, please send 10 min straight doing it, just practice and write at the same time. And answer also the other questions from that message with your most honest direct observation. And let me know if anything else is noticed or come up doing this.

Staying close to the questions and what is asked for is part of a way to lead you out of unconscious stuck patterns. Not because the exercises or questions are "THE right way to go" (doesn't exist) or to be rigid, just because through really attending to them (and they are all pointing) seeing will happen, sooner or later. This can evoke resistance, if that happens it can be good to word it.

How do you react?

Have a nice weekend