Truth over illusions!

[EmmaNoOne]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I am the awareness experiencing the story of Emma. I am the awareness of her thoughts and beliefs but I am not those things. The story just was this experience of being separate but not the truth. There is one self, having infinite experiences.

What are you looking for at LU?
A deepening of my current process. I am 3 months in to a course in miracles and really want to step further out of the story, the judgements and opinions and get to the truth. My experience of peace has really increased since I started letting go of story and blame. I know on a level I am awareness and not emma and I just want to get a place where this is undeniable

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I actually have no idea what to expect from this and think it’s best to keep it that way. Any expectations are potential blocks to what is. I have no idea what anything is for or what’s best for me so I will just have faith that i get what I need

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Decades of feeling lost and like this can’t be it. Highest highs and lowest lows with so much pain. The last 10 years have been relentless focus on ‘self improvement’, believing in trauma and that I was damaged. Plant medicines, breathwork, sound baths, books, therapy, coaches, you name it! Nothing brought any lasting peace. Until ACIM and letting go of the story and the idea of separate selves. I am currently dedicated to letting go of every belief I ever held!

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

Welcome to LU. I guide here and reading through your introduction some things resonated and I'd like to offer to guide you.

Please call me Jon.

. The last 10 years have been relentless focus on ‘self improvement’, believing in trauma and that I was damaged.

Interesting. And familiar. Are you saying that something in your perspective about that has changed?

. Plant medicines, breathwork, sound baths, books, therapy, coaches, you name it! Nothing brought any lasting peace.

That sounds familiar too. Did you find that in spite of all these things there was still a lot of unwanted mental narrative ?


All we would do here is have a conversation, the aim of which, for both of us, would be for you to start to see beyond any doubt that there is no fixed or separate self..

I'd ask questions and it would be up to you to look at your immediate experience for any lasting answers. You would not be being judged and you can't get this "wrong".

How does that sound?

Looking forward to speaking with you.

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Hi Jon! Thank you for your replies, I would love to continue to speak with you. I''m not sure how to include the previous messages like you did, so if you could let me know how to do that, that would be great;

'Interesting. And familiar. Are you saying that something in your perspective about that has changed?'

This literally instantly fell away for me when I went to my first retreat around thought which was the starting point for ACIM, and we discussed freewill, or lack of it, for the first time. I cant even explain how much all the story around 'why I am the way I am', just vanished. I haven't considered it once, since. It makes real sense to me that pain is nothing to do with what's happening in the world, that thoughts cause the suffering, and that I am the awareness just watching it all play out. I always wondered, 'how do I decide to think the things I think'? It made no sense! So the belief that I was traumatised, and that I had certain triggers because of my childhood just disappeared as soon as that freewill conversation was had, along with ACIM teachings around separation and the real source of pain.

'That sounds familiar too. Did you find that in spite of all these things there was still a lot of unwanted mental narrative ?'

Absolutely! Coaching was just horrendous, because I would learn not to be as reactive but I was in the same amount of pain because the triggers/thoughts were still LOUD! So this was exhausting. Constantly trying to 'regulate my emotions' and not blame, whilst feeling just as bad as ever. After ayahuasca I was extremely anxious for months because I had a big resurgence of my old pattern - fear of going crazy. Breathwork would offer some respite and welcome emotional release without story, but it wouldn't stop the narrative for long. Therapy, well, that's just 'hey, let's really make the story real!' Nothing worked, the internal voice just never, ever stopped. I did find micro-dosing psilocybin helped with my anxiety and it got a bit quieter, but I was micro-dosing when I was on my knees in my house begging god or what/whoever to just please help me. So it cant have worked that well ;)

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

That was quick!

. Hi Jon! Thank you for your replies, I would love to continue to speak with you. I''m not sure how to include the previous messages like you did, so if you could let me know how to do that, that would be great

Great. I was using the quote function. Here is a very good explanation about how-to use it, via this link:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660&p=12593#p12593

Or, you can access this explanation easily from The Gate home page (towards the top).

ACIM sounds to have been very helpful.

. This literally instantly fell away for me when I went to my first retreat around thought which was the starting point for ACIM, and we discussed freewill, or lack of it, for the first time. I cant even explain how much all the story around 'why I am the way I am', just vanished. I haven't considered it once, since.

Wonderful. I like the fact that you can't even explain how much of the story just vanished! That's great.

. It makes real sense to me that pain is nothing to do with what's happening in the world, that thoughts cause the suffering, and that I am the awareness just watching it all play out. I always wondered, 'how do I decide to think the things I think'? It made no sense! So the belief that I was traumatised, and that I had certain triggers because of my childhood just disappeared as soon as that freewill conversation was had, along with ACIM teachings around separation and the real source of pain

Again, wonderful.

. Absolutely! Coaching was just horrendous, because I would learn not to be as reactive but I was in the same amount of pain because the triggers/thoughts were still LOUD! So this was exhausting. Constantly trying to 'regulate my emotions' and not blame, whilst feeling just as bad as ever

Oh yes! I had my own version of this going on too.

But do you find that this sort of mental scenario does still sometimes appear (albeit much less troublesome)?

. After ayahuasca I was extremely anxious for months because I had a big resurgence of my old pattern - fear of going crazy

Not so very helpful then?

. Breathwork would offer some respite and welcome emotional release without story, but it wouldn't stop the narrative for long. Therapy, well, that's just 'hey, let's really make the story real!' Nothing worked, the internal voice just never, ever stopped

I enjoyed breathwork too and don't knock it but again, to have to keep doing it a lot is potentially tiresome and maybe, behind it there's can lurk the idea of having to "mend someone"?

. I did find micro-dosing psilocybin helped with my anxiety and it got a bit quieter, but I was micro-dosing when I was on my knees in my house begging god or what/whoever to just please help me. So it cant have worked that well ;)

Well at least there was finally the medicine of recognising the role of thoughts and the usefulness of investigating "free will".

You mention a conversation about separation. Was that something you investigated?

[EmmaNoOne]

But do you find that this sort of mental scenario does still sometimes appear (albeit much less troublesome)?

Absolutely! I am going through periods of really seeing that I have a choice in how I respond, taking responsibility, trying not overlay the past on the present moment and able to to extend love to the apparent other. Real peace and like I cannot be rocked. At other times the pain is so big. Just this week I had major and very typical triggers around my 'partner'. There is a lot of resentment and then shame about the feelings. Sometimes I really grasp it's not real, not really me/the truth of me, others it's so strong and I feel disheartened that 'it's back'.

After ayahuasca I was extremely anxious for months because I had a big resurgence of my old pattern - fear of going crazy
Not so very helpful then?

It wasn't that it wasn't helpful, I just went in with so much fear it was impossible to let go. Anxiety/panic/insanity has been my default setting so far. Ironic considering how I currently think is what's insane ;)

You mention a conversation about separation. Was that something you investigated?

Separation has come up since ACIM and it's the only thing that makes sense. I know there are many non-duality teachings but the day after I was on my knees, ACIM came up. I booked a call and that was it. I had read 'power of now' before, 'the unthered soul'. I just didn't get it the way I do with ACIM. Don't get me wrong, mind still gets involved and finds it 'hard' and likes to pull up doubts, but really, 'I' don't doubt it. We are all longing and we all looked out there in the world and it gave us nothing! We crave love but we cant find it because the love we experience is conditional and it changes and dies. That's not love. Separation being the cause of pain just makes sense. It also serves as a great anchor to me to keep going when the thoughts try to make out it's too hard. Nothing is harder than living with insanity narrating over and ruining every perfect moment!

[JonathanR]

Hi again :-)

. I know on a level I am awareness and not emma and I just want to get a place where this is undeniable

Ok , Lets address this by looking at "awareness" and "separation".

Here is a really fascinating exercise:

Find something coloured, a cup for instance. I will talk of a white cup, but you may find something with a different colour.

Set it in front of you so that you can see it whilst sitting in a relaxed way.

Notice the colour.

Is whiteness separate from the experience of it?

Is whiteness separate from awareness of it?


There's more but first try this out and let me know how it goes?

All best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

OK, so I am looking at my phone, it's purple. Although it's not that the phone is separately purple, I don't think I ever noticed its colour being a 'defining' factor before. It's just a phone and the colour is also the phone. There is no distinction whatsoever. It's not a purple phone, it's a phone. I can't see purple as separate from the phone-ness - hahaha!

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. OK, so I am looking at my phone, it's purple. Although it's not that the phone is separately purple

Ok. Good.

But really it doesn't matter if its a phone or cup or anything else. Everything that can be seen has some sort of colour..

Really, can you find any separation between purple and the experience of it ?

Is there any separation between purple and awareness of it? Is it possible to find any separation?

[EmmaNoOne]

Really, can you find any separation between purple and the experience of it ?

Is there any separation between purple and awareness of it? Is it possible to find any separation?

No I can't. There is no separation between purple and the experience of it and there is no separation between purple and my awareness of it. I can't see it as anything other than it is. I can't see the phone or rather experience the phone, without it being purple.

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. No I can't. There is no separation between purple and the experience of it and there is no separation between purple and my awareness of it. I can't see it as anything other than it is. I can't see the phone or rather experience the phone, without it being purple

This is great.

Is it "my awareness"?

It's possible to speak in these terms but is it "my" awareness, or, possibly just awareness?

Is there something that makes awareness "yours" ?

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Is it "my awareness"?

It's possible to speak in these terms but is it "my" awareness, or, possibly just awareness?

Is there something that makes awareness "yours" ?

Haha I knew you were going to say this! It still feels like it's my awareness but I guess that's missing the point? I guess what makes it my awareness is still believing I'm a 'me'.

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. Haha I knew you were going to say this! It still feels like it's my awareness but I guess that's missing the point? I guess what makes it my awareness is still believing I'm a 'me'.

Yes, could be.

There is no "you", never was and never will be .

How does that fall? On reading it, what is felt or thought?

It is very interesting that you switched from belief in being a "suffering person with problems that needed lots of work" to "I am awareness". Would it be fair to say that you are not what you thought you were?

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

How does that fall? On reading it, what is felt or thought?

I am aware of some discomfort. Not really any thoughts. Ego discomfort, it doesn't like that but I can observe it. I am very aware of some lingering desire to be special that hasn't quite all gone yet.

It is very interesting that you switched from belief in being a "suffering person with problems that needed lots of work" to "I am awareness". Would it be fair to say that you are not what you thought you were?

I still believe I suffer, but at the hands of believing thoughts, entirely that, and not because of trauma and childhood. Sometimes I am completely aware of thoughts and actually laugh at them because I know they aren't real. Particularly if there is a random vicious thought. I can see that that is absolutely not me, it's like a cloud floating by. Sometimes, I believe them, and that's when I perceive suffering. That's it! The source of all pain.

Yes it would be fair to say I am not what I thought I am. I believed I struggled so much with certain triggers because of the way my mum was, how my sister was treated, lots of story. I am absolutely not that story. It's like all of a sudden, I am here talking to you and none of that happened. It feels like there is no past.

[JonathanR]

Hi Emma

. Yes it would be fair to say I am not what I thought I am. I believed I struggled so much with certain triggers because of the way my mum was, how my sister was treated, lots of story. I am absolutely not that story. It's like all of a sudden, I am here talking to you and none of that happened. It feels like there is no past.

Maybe there is no past? What is "past"? I mean, where is it , beyond an idea? Same with "future"?

At any one moment could it be that there is only what is happening right now?

. I am aware of some discomfort. Not really any thoughts. Ego discomfort, it doesn't like that but I can observe it. I am very aware of some lingering desire to be special that hasn't quite all gone yet.

But what if you get to be special and not special all at the same time :-) ?

What is the "you" that gets to observe "you"?

Hey. I have an interesting and potentially useful question :

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing?

Try this now, try preventing thoughts.

Let me know how it goes?

All the best

Jon

[EmmaNoOne]

Maybe there is no past? What is "past"? I mean, where is it , beyond an idea? Same with "future"?

At any one moment could it be that there is only what is happening right now?

This is absolutely right! It's not a thing! There is only this eternal now moment and everything else is a made up concept! Where is it? Nowhere! I have let go of this concept more and more but good old guilt likes to use it as a tool when it can.

But what if you get to be special and not special all at the same time

Ahh, I guess this is pointing to there being no separation in awareness?

What is the "you" that gets to observe "you"?

Pure awareness? The awareness that is observing the apparent experiences the apparent body is having that we have attached to as being a separate 'I'?

Is it possible to prevent thoughts from appearing?

No, this is not possible for me currently. It's less powerful now because I can at times understand it's a thought with no meaning and let it pass by. At other times I believe these meaningless thoughts to be true, and when I've believed the same thought enough times, it becomes a belief, and bang, there is the experience I have.

Here are some of the thoughts that came as I tried this exercise;

The TV is too loud. She is watching a programme about people getting murdered, again
I think we need a new fridge, that one is on it's way out
The dog is stood on the chair and he has put a bloody hole in that
There are times when I can stop the thought mid way through but I cant stop it from coming into existence