I need help seeing through the illusory I with clarity

[Vit1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The continuous stream of internal comments, questions and answers, words and pictures believes to be in charge of thinking, feeling and perceiving. This series of movements creates the illusion of a separate me/self/identity, and yet ´- the Knowing behind and through all this is always seeing, always present and the very nature of it all.

What are you looking for at LU?
A guide that can help we with unstick some of the blocks I'm trying to work through. The process of using thought to break through the illusion of self carries with it some uncertainties, at least for me, that I`d like to discuss with someone.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would expect to received more personalized advice on what to work through. I´ve had some flashes of insight by going though Gateless Gatecrashers but they somehow didn't stick. I feel like I am very close and the input from someone who has gone through the process would be great.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've meditate regularly for the past 9 years and been to several 10 day silent retreats. I've started doing self inquiry about 3-4 years ago.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

God morning!

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

I'm near Boulder, CO in US Mountain time.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

Hi

Do you still want to be guided here?

Loving,

[Vit1]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you very much for your reply and for your time. I just saw your message and notification today, having gone to the LU website directly, apologies if I haven't reply any sooner, I just thought no one had replied yet (somehow I didn't see the Gmail notification for either of your 2 messages).

I'm based in Ireland (Dublin/London time). However, I just arrived in Texas las night. I have a long and busy work trip across the 5 Gulf states until the 19th July, and then on my return home I have a 10 day silent retreat that I will attend (not Goenka vipassana). All in all, I won't really be able to commit to this process until the very beginning of August? Not sure what you're schedule is but would it be ok/do you mind if we formally start this process in August?

Thanks again for your time and reply.
All the best,
Vito

[Anastacia42]

Sure. That's fine.

I'll get an admin to check why you didn't get notices.

[Vit1]

OK, great. I found the 2nd message you sent under Promotions and moved it to the Inbox folder.This last message you sent showed up in inbox and I saw it just fine. I think the issue is fixed.

Look forward to speak in early August, thank you for the flexibility.
V

[Anastacia42]

Hi Vito,

Please watch these 2 videos:

Seeing won't be 24/7. There's likely to.be a "honeymoon period," and then Wendy we call, "got it, lost it," as untrue beliefs come up to be questioned. However, it is like seeing there is no Santa Claus. It doesn't matter if he puts the red suit back on, you are not fooled.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Just relax into whatever is arising. Please post here in the forum.

Loving

[Vit1]

OK, thanks. Will watch those videos and reply as soon as.
V

[Anastacia42]

Good and please copy everything you wrote in PM to this forum.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

Are you now getting notifications?

[Vit1]

Yes Stacy, I am getting notifications, all good.

By the way, I sat for 90 minutes this morning and I started writing down and going through beliefs until I got to base ones such as: is there someone feeling? Is there something responsible for thoughts? towards the end I got the feeling I hit the base level because this large feeling shaped like an empty balloon came up, something familiar I remember experiencing in dreams. It's there to protect something, perhaps the sense of separate identity. Anyhow, a few minutes after that, I had to leave and get ready for work so I didn´t get a chance to properly look at that (pity!!!). I´ll repeat the exercise at the next sitting and refer back. But it seems to help, it felt like some progress was made.

And here below is the text I posted yesterday in the private email..
Cheers
Vito

---
Hi Stacy, OK - good to know this platform will work.

I wanted to start by giving you some context about what happened during the 10 day meditation retreat that ended on Sunday so as to give you a better feel for where I'm at.

During the first part of the retreat I was working on empty open awareness meditation, kind of just recognizing that awareness is always present and that everything appears as an object within awareness. On day 3 I started working for the second time through the Gateless Gatecrashers book and by day 5 in the evening, after a lot of frustration build up, I was reading a passage from one of the stories when it happened.
There was a big emotional release associated with the “clicking in place”, I guess it’s a relativity thing that happens when mind compares the current experience with past ones and a difference is noted, quite a big this one time. Anyhow, I felt like a massive part of self had sank away, kind of like a giant piece of iceberg breaking off from the Antarctic Ice shelf, like you see in climate change documentaries. It felt in equal parts sad and happy/relieved that the unnecessary weight had been lost. Probably the best way to describe it was pure emptiness, nothing gained, and everything unnecessary lost. At that point, everything was just happening on its own, no resistance, just simple unencumbered looking, hearing, feeling etc.. Experience lacked the usual centralised sense of I, and there wasn’t much energy dispersed in the believing of thought processes. This lasted for about an hour and a half and then thoughts started to reconstruct the structure of ego self, and I fell asleep. Morning after, it was all gone.
Fast forward 2 days later, again frustration had somewhat built up again, and after returning from a meditation sitting I’m on my bed going through another story from Gateless Gatecrashers. If I remember correctly I was reading a passage of a story about not having to believe the content of thoughts and the whole thing clicked in place again. This time there was no emotional release, just a very subtle switch. It was clearly a separate self belief gone dead/seen through. I checked the other senses for any interference and they were clear – in the seeing just the seen, in the hearing just the heard, and so on and so forth. Thoughts were just thoughts, no resistance to the process, nor belief in their content. The usual I sense was gone. I then went to the yoga class and it was great, much more easier and relaxed being in the room with 10 other people, no care about the occasional thought stream, and the body was just moving on its own. Went out for some walking meditation after and looking at the tree I saw just the tree, kind of like I was the tree, same happened with the stone path I was walking on, the white cottage, the bushes on the side of the road. Everything just happening without any “I / me” interference or overlay. This lasted through the evening hours and night and kind of evaporated a few hours after the start of the morning, the day after.

I thought that once seen through the wrong belief in self, the change would stick but I was somewhat surprised at the return to "old self". Not sure where to go from here. Do you have any pointer?

Thanks again.
Vito

[Anastacia42]

Okay.

There's no need to make up extra exercises. What is given will be sufficient.

Regarding what you wrote. there is no "self" to return. That's completely impossible. However, you can start believing the lies again.

Seeing won't be 24/7. There's likely to.be a "honeymoon period," and then Wendy we call, "got it, lost it," as untruebeliefs come up to be questioned.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

"Wendy" is a typo... what...

[Vit1]

Hey Stacy, in the last few days I worked on the sense of seeing, specifically on who's seeing. I'm somewhat stuck on this exercise. If I move my eyes from one object in front of me to another one nearby in fast succession, it feels like "I" am making each decision of moving right or left. Sometimes the impulse to turn one direction comes before the thought, other times I can't really be sure and it seems like I am thinking and directing the process with volition and intent. This part is very sticky - any suggestion?

[Anastacia42]

Yes, do the Seeing pointer below...

Seeing Exercise - Part I

The usual belief that 'I am this body' is usually tied in with the belief that the body as a separate item is responsible or 'DOING' the senses - 'I see', 'I hear', 'I feel' etc

We will begin with 'seeing' -

Just that one sense on its own.

Close your eyes.

With eyes closed, you will now experience 'blackness'. There may be other things you can find going on, sure. If you are looking at a bright light, there may be a red glow. There may be sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics.

Just to make things simple, whatever you can see with eyes closed, I'm going to refer to it as 'black' or 'blackness' just for simplicity.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness' as I mentioned?

2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?

3) Can what is witnessing the blackness be found?

4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is witnessing the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found? What do you find?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be found? Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought?

Loving,