KaliMaa

[Kailua2023]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no small entity inside the body (or anywhere else) that is causing actions, or is responsible for emotions, thoughts, or sensations. There is no separate self which owns the body, thoughts, sensations, experiences, or anything else.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to experience complete freedom from identification as a small self. The small self believes itself to be responsible for everything that happens, and from this false belief arises all suffering.

I am requesting Lubo as a guide. He suggested I should write answers to the final questions.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like to explore false beliefs regarding the nature of the self. I want to fully see through the illusion of a separate self, and know that there is no separate small entity "Barbara" driving the bus.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I had a first 'spiritual' experience in 1992, when I experienced causeless joy when meditating with a photo of Mother Meera. Since then I have been meditating, and chanting, and doing seva, as well as other practices. Inquiry into the nature of the self started in November 2022 when I met with Lubo and Luchana for the first time.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Lubo]

Hi dear KaliMaa,
Nice name!
Here are the final questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Kailua2023]

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. No.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of separate self is thoughts claiming to own thoughts, the body and its movements, and sensations. Everything that arises is claimed to belong to “me”.
It can start in a few ways. In one way, a sensation arises and protective mechanisms like fear and shame come to suppress that sensation, and then thoughts come to say ‘that fear or shame or sensation is me, belongs to me’. In another way, a thought comes and another thought comes to say ‘that thought is me, belongs to me’. In another way, a body movement/action arises, and thoughts come to say ‘that movement/action is me, belongs to me’. The general pattern is that something arises and thoughts come to claim it as ‘me, belonging to me’.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels so freeing! In this seeing there is freedom, peace and relief from stress.
A good example is some challenges taking money from an ATM in a foreign country. This happened two days ago. Before the shift in seeing, it would have been experienced this way: Oh no! I keep trying to take money out of the machine but it doesn’t work. It’s my fault! I’m doing something wrong or bad, I’m wrong or bad or incompetent. Now it’s experienced this way: the hand puts the card in the ATM. The hand pushes some buttons. No money comes out. The hand pushes more buttons. Nothing comes out. The hand pushes more buttons, money comes out, the hand takes the money.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Examining fear and realizing that behind fear there is nothing! There was a sensation of fear, and then being guided to look behind the fear, and it was clearly seen that there was nothing there. There was no small self hiding behind the fear! There is no one protected by fear—it is just a protective mechanism that arises.

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

There are no decisions as we understand that term, because there is no one to decide. For example, how did it happen that I came to Europe to visit Lubo and Luchana? It appeared to be a decision on the part of the illusory self (‘I made the decision’), but how did it really happen? There was an invitation to come, and then making the flight reservations just happened.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

This question is basically the same as the previous question. Before seeing there would be a thought or belief that the illusory self had an intention to do something. But since there is no illusory self, then that is not how actions arise. There is just action happening. For example, there may be something like an impulse to have ice cream that arises from somewhere, and then there might be walking to get ice cream, and buying and eating ice cream. Or maybe not. Maybe there is walking but no buying or eating ice cream.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

This question is very similar. The illusory self does not have free will because it doesn’t exist! We could say that Life has total free will to flow and arise and manifest as it wants. For example, it seems that the illusory self has free will to decide what to have for breakfast. But how does it actually happen? The hand opens the refrigerator, the hand reaches for something and takes it out. Thoughts come later to claim ‘I made that choice’.
Or if we look at a bigger example, we could say that I have free will to live wherever I want to live. But how does living somewhere actually happen? An impulse might arise from somewhere, we don’t know where, and then actions might be taken in a way that move the body and objects to a place. Or maybe not.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice is the same. The illusory self cannot choose because it doesn’t exist. Let’s say we go to have ice cream, and there appears to be a choice of flavors. There is scanning of the containers of ice cream, and then words are spoken, such as “I’ll have vanilla.” But that selection did not come from the illusory self! It just happened. And then thoughts come to say “I chose vanilla.”

Describe control & give examples from experience.

The illusory self arises from thoughts that claim to own or be responsible for or in control of what has arisen. But since the illusory self does not exist, that is not what really happens. The illusory self has no control, because it doesn’t exist. The body moves, thoughts arise, sensations come, events happen—and none of that is under the control of the illusory self. The ATM machine example is also apt here. The illusory self thinks it can control what happens in life by doing the right thing, having the right thoughts, being ‘good’, etc. But can it really control what happens at the ATM? No, because the illusory self doesn’t exist. The hand pushes buttons, but money might come out, or might not. The illusory self can’t control whether money comes out or not.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things just happen! We don’t know how or why.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

The illusory self is not responsible for anything because it doesn’t exist. Life just happens as it does, and there is no responsibility on the part of the illusory self for how things happen. For example, the illusory self is not responsible for no money coming out of the ATM. That just happened. The illusory self is not responsible for sensations that arise.
Of course, actions can arise for caring for loved ones, such as children and pets. The illusory self having no responsibility doesn’t mean that the body sits on the couch and eats ice cream all day with no attention to apparent others! It just means that the illusory self doesn’t exist and therefore cannot be responsible for anything.

Anything to add?

Love!!

[Lubo]

Hi dear Barbara,
There are two more questions:

1. the illusory self does not exist and does not take decision, how about you Barbara ?

2.How do you know that the 1992 experience of causeless joy when meditating with a photo of Mother Meera happened?

Love
Lubo

[Kailua2023]

the illusory self does not exist and does not take decision, how about you Barbara ?

The small entity Barbara, formerly thought to be "me," also does not exist!

How do you know that the 1992 experience of causeless joy when meditating with a photo of Mother Meera happened?

Thoughts say it. That's all. Memories are just thoughts.