Fetter work in progres

[Shikantaza77]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that LU helps people to se through the illusion of "Me" as a separate self and beyond till absolutely "no one" is there or the seeking completely stops

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a facilitator who does fetter work model as a key to liberation. I am currently working alone with shikantaza, emotional practices and 5 senses meditations to "deepen" the Presence discoverd when the first 3 fetter had fallen. I need help with fetters 4&5 and beyond because it seems that it's very difficult to break them. They have weakened but they don't brake. Not in the last 3 months they don't.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect some clarity about inquiry and some answers that may help me to calibrate the looking into the hindrances of deeper awakening. It seems to me that I am getting lost sometimes, still entangled in thought.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Very long story, since I was a child basically. I went through healing practices since I was 7 but abandoned them when I felt drained at one point, spiritual books from my mom, then in high scool a lot of books of Budo, zen, martial arts, meditation, qi gong, tai chi, reiki master at 16 then Christian orthodox ascetissism and mistic, Jesus prayer and isihism (home edition 😁). I gave that all up since it seems in the big picture then wasn't going anywhere for me. Last year I had a personal and profesionl meltdown, resigned corporate world and determined to not move a finger in this world until I find what's going on with this life in general. All af it. So...I have resumed the search.

After 500 hours of YouTube clips of Eckhart Tole and two books written by him, another who knows how many hundred hours of Rupert Spira and others, 6 hours of meditation per day in 5 months, a slagehamer seriees of Tony Parsons videos on YouTube (which wore the cherry on top and did the "job") I finnly awakend. Later on I found Dr. Angelo Delullo's channel on YouTube who at some point had a guest (Kevin Schanilec) who works with the fetter method. It was then when I found out that the "stage" I was in its called a stream enterer and the first three fetter had fallen. Serching continues til there will be absolutely no one and nothing left to fully awaken.

Hope I will get some help from you guys.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Luchana]

Hi.

and welcome to Liberation Unleashed, glad you make it here.
I'm Luchana and I can walk with you if you want?

Thank you for sharing your experience and the willingness to become a guide.

As the admin already mentioned - in this forum we are guiding to see experientially and not only intellectually that there is no inherent, separate self, I, me in any form or shape. I understand that you are keen to so called fetters, honestly I'm not so much into that. "Fetters" are a map, a concept, and like ALL other concepts and maps they are just a helpful tool, nothing more.

So can you tell me with few words how life flows lately (please report from the last few days)

Does it feels like "I'm thinking, I'm choosing, I'm living my life?"

Did you voluntarily choose to subscribe into the forum?

And how EXACTLY you made that choice?

What are you responsible for?


Sending love,
Luchana

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I'd be happy for you to guide me along the way 🤗

I know fetters are just a map. And for me it was amazing when I realized because there is such a map showing the way in 10 "steps" . Especially since it was unknown where I was in my experience and whether this journey was over or not although after the honeymoon it became obvious that there were still many emotions to process. I was to find out that the first 3 fetters had fallen off(January).

In the last few weeks thoughts and emotions float, form and reform into a fluffy and soft, gentle peace in acceptance of all that is and springs up like a warm fireworks show.

There is no sense of a thinking or feeling self but there are emotions that are commented on by the mind, thoughts that seem to be immediately associated with certain emotions. Risen out of nowhere. Some of the thoughts trigger reactions such as justice and injustice, moral-immoral which are apparently very strong fixations. There appears as stirring, an effervescence, a revolt, a peek of Impulse, by something that is seen or heard about a situation, a person, which says do something, anything, say something, that something that forms a lump in the throat and chest agitating the whole body and seizing the mind towards revolt. Most times I notice this show, other times I find myself... reacting, going through the gap.

There is indeed fixation on the 'next step', the energy of the search doesn't stop there and I can say that it has led me and brought me here being charged with an excitement and joy about the search. Going through numerous videos on YouTube for other hints in the fetter model and nothing that resonated being found, the impulse to look at Pernilles videos was approved by an alignment of thought conditions witch led to action in that direction of clicking the videos. I stumbled acros a video of Pernilles channel called something like " how to do fetter work and find a guide" it got my full attention. The allowence of the search was indulged by another fixation/belif which says "you can't get another job in corporate world until your 4&5 fetter fall off or else you will suffer grratly, again because of your belife sistem in fair/not fair paradigms"

Sometimes the pull of the mind seems to be to strong to even be accepted so a giving in happens.

[Shikantaza77]

Hi.

and welcome to Liberation Unleashed, glad you make it here.
I'm Luchana and I can walk with you if you want?

Thank you for sharing your experience and the willingness to become a guide.

As the admin already mentioned - in this forum we are guiding to see experientially and not only intellectually that there is no inherent, separate self, I, me in any form or shape. I understand that you are keen to so called fetters, honestly I'm not so much into that. "Fetters" are a map, a concept, and like ALL other concepts and maps they are just a helpful tool, nothing more.

So can you tell me with few words how life flows lately (please report from the last few days)

Does it feels like "I'm thinking, I'm choosing, I'm living my life?"

Did you voluntarily choose to subscribe into the forum?

And how EXACTLY you made that choice?

What are you responsible for?


Sending love,
Luchana

I forgot to quote and I feel sorry. Hopefully you will see my answer in the thred. 🤞

[Luchana]

Hi
(what name you prefer to call you? )

Most of you answers are coming from thinking and not looking which is the main difference when we start investigate.

But that's ok. It is inevitable. And it is ok.

So let's focus here and we will see how it goes.

There is no sense of a thinking or feeling self but there are emotions that are commented on by the mind, thoughts that seem to be immediately associated with certain emotions. Risen out of nowhere. Some of the thoughts trigger reactions such as justice and injustice, moral-immoral which are apparently very strong fixations.

What is mind when it is looked at here now?

How mind is experienced exactly?

Is there an expectation that emotions will stop appearing?

What can a thought do?

Is thought an independent entity with a power to do certain things?

For example to trigger a reaction?

Please look at the questions and reply each one individually.
Try to not think about the answers, reply from experience.

Sending love,
Luchana

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

You can call me Flavius.

Most of you answers are coming from thinking and not looking which is the main difference when we start investigate.

But that's ok. It is inevitable. And it is ok.

O.M.G. I was stuck in my head, wasn't I?
From the second I read your paragraph a series of reactions and thoughts about misjudgments and unfairness began. Within a few minutes I had the feeling that this was a goldmine in itself because I was so gone in the mind. Thank you very much!🙏

What is mind when it is looked at here now?

I don't know. Doesn't seem to be anymore when I look for it. I really don't know.

How mind is experienced exactly?

Anything I do to figure it out starts a comment. I can't get my hands on it. When I search the mind at first noting is there and after around ten seconds one can only notice sensations in the body. A general feeling that a dense haze with certain shades that disappears and appears, intensifies or thins.

Is there an expectation that emotions will stop appearing?

There is an expectation that the reactions will stop.

What can a thought do?

Nothing. It seems to do nothing.

Is thought an independent entity with a power to do certain things?

I had a reaction to explain, but on another look it disappeared. Is just thought about thought and then some more about thought commenting on thought being just a thought, or just nothing there.

For example to trigger a reaction?

My mind starts to explain if I insist on giving an answer. Thoughts appear comments and feelings, compartmentalizing. More thoughts refering though.

Thank you 🙏

[Luchana]

Hi Flavius.

O.M.G. I was stuck in my head, wasn't I?
From the second I read your paragraph a series of reactions and thoughts about misjudgments and unfairness began. Within a few minutes I had the feeling that this was a goldmine in itself because I was so gone in the mind. Thank you very much!🙏

It is ok, we all do that until we stop :-)

And you did a good looking.

What is mind when it is looked at here now?

I don't know. Doesn't seem to be anymore when I look for it. I really don't know.

How mind is experienced exactly?

Anything I do to figure it out starts a comment. I can't get my hands on it. When I search the mind at first noting is there and after around ten seconds one can only notice sensations in the body. A general feeling that a dense haze with certain shades that disappears and appears, intensifies or thins.

So in reality mind as such can't' be found?
It is a word, a label, it doesn't exist as a thing.


Let's look at how thoughts appear than?

What do you do in order to think?

How do you make a thought into existence?

There is an expectation that the reactions will stop.

Hmm, the reaction (pulling back) from an oncoming car towards you will usually happen, I hope you agree?
Reactivity though may not be such a big problem.

Sending love,
Luchana

[Luchana]

Hi again Flavius,

just a short notice that today 7 pm EEST (Estern European Time) we host a meeting and you are most welcome to join.

Here is info and link

Thursday, 15th of June, 7 pm Sofia, Bulgaria time EEST
The meeting Is free of charge.
If you want to receive notification for all the meetings and events
send an e-mail to luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Here is the link:
Please join 5 min, earlier.


Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88905540192?p ... FUT29EZz09

Meeting ID: 889 0554 0192
Passcode: 170743


Sending much love,

Luchana

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

Thank you very much for your work! It seems that since we first started working a deep peace has been dominating my feelings and thoughts are calmer then before.

Let's look at how thoughts appear than?

Sensation in the body is present and at some point random labeling begins then comment after coment comes.

What do you do in order to think?

Apparently...nothing. thinking just starts randomly at some point.

How do you make a thought into existence?

This seems a little more complicated. Thinking starts randomly if prompted by some external stimuli. If i say: let me think about my career plan right now. I'll start with resume review. Where that idee of thinking of that came? It was chosen? Where did the second ideea of a starting
point come from?! No. It just apeared. Randomly.

I cannot make a thought into existence, clearly.

Thank you very much 🙏

[Luchana]

Hi Flaviois.

Thank you very much for your work! It seems that since we first started working a deep peace has been dominating my feelings and thoughts are calmer then before.

Thank you for you kind words. Yea, when we start looking directly at the experience it may feel like that :-)

Sensation in the body is present and at some point random labeling begins then comment after coment comes.

So good that you can notice that.

Look curiously:

What is doing the commenting?
Where the commenting is coming from?
To whom that commenting is happening?

This seems a little more complicated. Thinking starts randomly if prompted by some external stimuli. If i say: let me think about my career plan right now. I'll start with resume review. Where that idee of thinking of that came? It was chosen? Where did the second ideea of a starting
point come from?! No. It just apeared. Randomly.

Lovely observation.

What is choosing the random appearing of thoughts?

Sending love,
Luchana

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

These questions help me alot! 😍

I must admit that for this set of questions I had to look even closer then before.

What is doing the commenting?

Automatic Habit of mind itself is doing it. Nothing there. They just apere.
Underlying habit that everything has be comented on anything : A nartion, a conclusion, a solution being given, an impulse, a comparison.

Where the commenting is coming from?

Out of nowhere. A slight dense sensation in the body appears and then spoof : a voice is saying something.

To whom that commenting is happening?

🤣To a belief of a thought that "thinks" it can discern something from anything being thought 😄

I'm in even more peace now!

Thank you for reminding me this!

Why do I keep forgetting this every few weeks?

Love you!

[Shikantaza77]

Hei Luchana!

I'm back with an answer for this las question.

What is choosing the random appearing of thoughts?

Conditionings. There is absolutely nothing there as a who but more as sensation in the body. The general "taste" of the "soup" of sansations is made out of past inprintings of the body, nervous system maybe, I don't know.
There is no present moment in thinking but only past replaying itself as comments. Nothing is choosing the randomness except past conditioning in the body but also it seems that everywhere attention goes is imediatly followed by a comment/conclusion that was established in the past at some point about what is seen or heard or thought (experienced thought is referencing another thought), no matter what the focus of attention is.

Thank you again and forever for the work that you do!🙏
Sending love too!
Flavius

[Luchana]

Hi Flavius,
you did a good looking,

Out of nowhere. A slight dense sensation in the body appears and then spoof : a voice is saying something.

let's look at this voice

What happens when you ask the voice
"Hey, whom do you speaking to?'

🤣To a belief of a thought that "thinks" it can discern something from anything being thought 😄

:-)
What can a thought do?
Can a thought think?
Can a thought discern something from anything?

I'm in even more peace now!

Thank you for reminding me this!

Why do I keep forgetting this every few weeks?

You are most welcome :-)
and there is no need to remember. Remembering is also a thought.

nothing is hidden when looked right now in this very moment.

so let's look again;
How the idea of a someone appears here?


Sending love,
Luchana

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

At some point things get slippery when looking.

"Hey, whom do you speaking to?'

To nobody. There's not anybody here besides another asumption of another thought that listened.

What can a thought do?

Nothing if a series of other thoughts doesn't believe it.

Can a thought think?

No. Just apears.

Can a thought discern something from anything?

No. Some fixed conditioned thoughts are activated and taken as truth and then triger other thoughts.

It seem to work like computer programing principals.
Purpose: right or wrong actionA/thought regarding X subject.
Condition : IF X and Y are present/not present THEN decision is good/bad THEN act/say/think another thought is the right thing to happen.

Thanks 🙏

[Shikantaza77]

Hi Luchana!

And the answer for the last question is:

How the idea of a someone appears here?

Decision making. The fact that a decision must be made after discerning and then to act "correctly".

It's an assumption that something is right and another și wrong.

Thank you🙏