Who am I?

[countrylife]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That what we believe we are is a fiction. There is a narrative going on which clouds our perception and we believe this is what we are. For myself, experiencing this truth however, has so far been a step ahead it seems.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance on seeing through the illusion. To understand where there is still attachment and false beliefs. Pointers which assist me in looking inside to try to get to the root of the sense of being, the sense of I.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A conversation with somebody who has seen through the illusion and can assist me in doing the same. Somebody which can see where there is attachment and lack and can prod me to investigate false beliefs.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Initially I started with meditation for peace that it brought with it. The sense of calm when the mind went still. Eventually I stumbled upon Buddhism and found an identity in that. Then I found Eckhart and practiced with his teachings. Then came non duality, Rupert Spira, Mooji and currently my practice is self inquiry.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[CherylVT]

Hi CountryLife,
(is that what you prefer to be called?)

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :)! It’s great to see you here!
My name is Cheryl, and I’ll be glad to be your guide if you like.

Here at LU we assist in the exploration of the idea of the separate self. This is a guiding based on experience that brings a shift in perception and is not a debate. It directly points to what IS through the use of exercises, questions and dialogue. What is expected from you is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings a shift in perception.

We are LOOKING directly into the experience of the senses, which is actually here and now, with the thinking stripped away. It is also known as Direct Experience (DE) or Actual Experience (AE). In this way, we are aiming to discover what is truly happening without the story we tell ourselves. For this process to work you have to answer with 100% honesty, and not relying on thought, imagination or memory - just reporting your direct experience. That would also mean leaving spiritual teachings, philosophies and science away during the inquiry. If you have a meditation practice, please feel free to continue with it as usual – it might come helpful.

Please read through “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Throughout this inquiry, please answer questions individually, not in a bundle. Please watch the below video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

For the sake of the intensity of the inquiry let’s try to stick to a daily conversation. Of course, life happens, so if you need more time, please let me know. I will do as well.

What time zone are in?

If you're okay with everything so far, we can start.

Love
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Hey Cheryl,

Thanks for being my guide. That all sounds fine with me.

(is that what you prefer to be called?)

You can call me Simon if you'd like.

What time zone are in?

GMT+1 which should mean it is 20:18 right now in my country.

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

Nice to meet you.

First things first, let’s get your expectations out on in the open:

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

3. What do you want not to happen?

4. What are you hoping for?

5. What is missing?

Love
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Hi Cheryl,

Thank you for that. Please find my responses, forgive me if I misunderstood the approach to answering.

1. What will be different when you realize there’s no separate self?

Thoughts are coming up with a lot of things such as peace, less stress, better relationships since there is no attachment however they are just thoughts. In direct experience there is no separate self perceived.

2. What do you expect to happen as a result of this?

Thoughts won't be taken so seriously and are seen to just be. Like a bird flying past, they can come and go. No attachment or judgement.

3. What do you want not to happen?

To remain seeking endlessly.

4. What are you hoping for?

Yearning for a lighter take on life. To see reality as it is without the filter of thoughts clouding it.

5. What is missing?

The peace and joy that is said to be present when thought doesn't rule reality.

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

Your reply was in the LU format. Thank you for that.

You say

Thoughts are coming up with a lot of things such as peace, less stress, better relationships since there is no attachment however they are just thoughts. In direct experience there is no separate self perceived.

It sounds as if you intellectually understand DE; you understand that thoughts are thoughts. And yet you say

Thoughts won't be taken so seriously and are seen to just be.

This sounds as if thoughts are being believed. In your direct experience, how is a thought believed?

To remain seeking endlessly.

What is seeking? in your Direct Experience.

Yearning for a lighter take on life. To see reality as it is without the filter of thoughts clouding it.

What is this yearning? in your Direct Experience.

The peace and joy that is said to be present when thought doesn't rule reality.

In Direct Experience, what is peace? What is joy?


Enjoy the look, look, looking.
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Hi again Cheryl,

In your direct experience, how is a thought believed?

Focusing on thoughts makes them appear real yet when looking there is just what is. Any answer given comes in the form of thought.

What is seeking? in your Direct Experience.

Seeking comes from thoughts. As long as thoughts aren't given attention they just go by.

What is this yearning? in your Direct Experience.

Yearning is also a thought. In Direct experience there is nothing that yearns. Thoughts come with judgement and are seen to be passing.

In Direct Experience, what is peace? What is joy?

They are thoughts. A lot of repetition but it all appears as thought. Any narrative comes as a thought. The sky is blue but there just is this expansiveness. There is no need for the labels. Looking up there is colour and shape, it's different in each moment.

What I'm finding hard to grasp with is why there seems to be the need of effort to allow thoughts to just be. Why don't they just flow, what could it be that is identifying with these thoughts? They seem addictive.

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

Thanks for your quick turnaround. Although you have an intellectual understanding about thoughts, the intellect cannot take you where you want to go. You have to look and keep looking. Look carefully. Look discretely. Look!

I asked you How is a thought believed?

You responded

Focusing on thoughts makes them appear real yet when looking there is just what is.

Here is an exercise:
I want you to sit somewhere quiet and observe thoughts.

A thought appears. In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is aware of it? Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking? Where do thoughts appear from? Do they appear randomly or in a structured way? Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay? Can the flow of thoughts be changed? Watch like a hawk.

Write down a sequence of 5 thoughts in the order that they appear. Now check:
Could you predict the order of their appearance? Did you know which will be the second or the fourth? Can you stop them midway? How long does that last? Test it for the fun of exploration. Are they 100% true?
What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

Love
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Hi Cheryl,

Thank you for the pointers. It's quite interesting to look at reality in this way.

In that moment is there anyone or anything which recognises the thought or is aware of it?

No there is only the experience of thought.

Can you see anything that is separate from the thought and does the thinking?

No thoughts appear and disappear.

Where do thoughts appear from?

They simply appear and disappear.

Do they appear randomly or in a structured way?

They are random. There is no structure because they just come and go. Sometimes similar thoughts keep repeating their appearance but there is still no structure.

Is there anything that is responsible for the thoughts like a traffic cop saying which one to go and which one to stay?

No there isn't. There is no control of thoughts.

Can the flow of thoughts be changed?

No.

* I need to take out my dog
* It's nice and breezy today
* I'm anxious about work tomorrow
* I should cook dinner
* Thoughts are similar from day to day

Could you predict the order of their appearance?

No.

Did you know which will be the second or the fourth?

No, they just appeared.

Can you stop them midway?

No they cannot be stopped or created.

How long does that last?

It's instant. They pop in and out very quickly. They are sometimes hard to notice until afterwards.

Test it for the fun of exploration. Are they 100% true?

No. They point to more concepts and ideas. The sky is nice, the sky is a concept, nice is a judgment. The experience of the sky is real, the thought isn't.

What are you, when you don't think about what you are?

Empty.

Best Regards,
Simon

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

Let's dig in to this thought.

* Thoughts are similar from day to day.

Says who?

How do you know that thoughts are similar day to day?

Look.
Slow down.
Look.

Love,
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Says who?

Thought.

How do you know that thoughts are similar day to day?

This is also a thought which is not real.


I just wrote down the five thoughts that came to mind since you asked about it. They were seen to be thoughts in passing and allowed to just pass by.

Thanks again, Cheryl!

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

You say

They were seen to be thoughts in passing and allowed to just pass by.

Who/What saw the thoughts?

What is it that is allowing? What is doing the allowing?


Look closely.

Love,
Cheryl

[countrylife]

Who/What saw the thoughts?

This is also a thought. The one that sees is a thought. There is only experience.

What is it that is allowing? What is doing the allowing?

Nothing. It all happens.

While looking it seems there was always this underlying thought of a watcher, something watching the thoughts. When a thought was "seen" the "watcher" was believed but this was also a thought.

These pointers were helpful. It felt like a layer was lifted. There is still the feeling of separation and strong emotions in the body, especially when looking directly at the emptiness of experience. Sensations arose in the body which thoughts labeled as fear.

Thanks again and hope you are well,
Cheryl

[countrylife]

There is a feeling of a weight being lifted today. Everything is the same but less sticky, if that makes sense. A sensation comes up and is noticed but it is okay. Thoughts come and go. There is still a sense of a person here so it may be there is still a ways to go.

Regards,
Simon

[CherylVT]

Dear Simon,

Ahhh.

a weight being lifted today. Everything is the same but less sticky,

Before we go on to fear, let’s make sure that you understand how to LOOK in the exercises:
There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing and seeing that there is nothing.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to answer:

1. You can think about it, trying to remember, or guessing what color they are.

2. You can have a look at your socks and see what color they ACTUALLY are!

You will agree that only by looking you could be 100% certain, right?

For the purpose of this inquiry, it is crucial that you are clear about this difference in the two ways of answering and stick only to the second way. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on. We are only interested in Direct (Actual) Experience (DE/AE)- the experience right now and right here.

Direct or Actual Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Sensing (not emotion - emotion is sensation plus thoughts/labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content, what the thought is ABOUT)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's color, a thought saying ‘apple,' and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple." What about the content of thoughts, what they describe? While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT cannot be found in direct or actual experience. Direct, actual experience is sound, thought, color(sight), smell, taste and sensation.

Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Color (visual information) labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is 'an apple' actually known? (Or is it just a label?) Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’? Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

Just to ensure that you are crystal clear about DE and labels related to it...here's an exercise that you can try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities, objects and emotions simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought as per the apple example.

For example, when having coffee in the morning, become aware of:
Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists EXACTLY like the one above. Please write a few examples from your daily life.

Love,
Cheryl