Awakening from the Victim Concept

[GoBro]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I cannot find a self-concept that has experiential reality or tangible qualities beyond sensations and perceptions. The interpreter is a construction that arises after sensations have arisen. The I-concept takes ownership of the sensations as identity. There is no identity beyond these seemingly neurotic sensations.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have had some traumas arise during the awakening process around abandonment and shameful/guilty neurotic tendencies that seem to really hold back the seeing through clearly. It seems to be energetic and manifests as obsessive compulsive experiences. This seems to have come about from some experiences of motherly childhood neglect though that's just a story. But there seems to be a need for proper and safe processing of this or just a seeing through the whole story completely and in it's entirety once and for all. Whatever is called for!

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't want to expect anything! And if I do, I might just forget anyway. I have been in non-duality for years and have joined many different teachings/teachers. I have no idea what to expect or do anymore! I'm really just here because I don't know anymore! I don't even know what I want! I have felt stuck as of late in the same old patterns. Something child-like on the human level might want help! Maybe what I want to expect most is a seeing through it all! But, maybe that's nonsense. We'll see!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am 29 and have spent much of my life in spiritual seeking, meeting non-dual friends and teachers as well as going through inquiry practices, energetic releases and experiences as well as working closely with certain teachers. In all this I have never found release and was often constantly confronted with my own suffering punctured by moments of bliss and freedom. I don't know anymore. I don't know what to do on the human level or how to conduct myself spiritually. I don't function very well as a normal human anymore. I can't seem to fix myself! As of late I have found myself involved in A Course in Miracles as opposed to the Advaita Vedanta schools I usually get with. I'm volunteering online for David Hoffmeister a little to give. But I feel to work with someone more closely as well. I love Ramana Maharshi, Jesus Christ and Shiva as symbols and reminders.... though I feel I have had much guidance from what is beyond my understanding... I still run continuously into my own suffering and can only try to encounter it with humility and the allowing of Spirit. But, I'm also just tired of it all lol.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

I can't resist responding to guide you. I also did ACIM - for 25 years. Have you encountered The Work of Byron Katie? That's how I let go of my trauma thoughts and discovered that it was all about my thinking. Nothing was currently happening, you know? It was just my thinking and guess what? All thoughts are lies. But I'm getting ahead of things here . . .

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[GoBro]

Greetings Stacy!

Nice to meet you! My real name is Brian! I am familiar with Byron Katie and The Work! I've done a couple worksheets!

I will be as direct and honest as possible so that everything goes as smoothly as it should. I can post every day. Just a heads up that I am additionally committed to "Posting in Purpose" for the David Hoffmeister "Tribe of Christ" community which entails creating 2 social media posts per week. And I am expected to make 1-4 social media reel clips for the "Clips for Christ" team every week for the same community. I just feel to make you aware of this right now.

I am also practicing The Course in Miracles workbook. I am on lesson 159 today. I still experience a fair bit of resistance to the idea of the Course as a Christian or more "dogmatic" approach. I never thought I would practice the Course and always believed Advaita Vedanta or non-duality was the way for me. But it is what is given now. I say this just for the sake of full transparency!

Regarding doubt, I have gone through plenty of times of doubt. And still encounter it all the time, to be honest. However, I am able to commit anyway and slice through it. The primary way that doubt manifests in my mind is that I seem to experience FOMO and question whether this way is the best way or if this teacher is really the best teacher etc. I do expect that this is just the mind's way of avoiding. I do tend to try to delay. Though this is something I can also slice through when committed. Speaking of avoiding... I have an avoidant personality! It is seemingly my primary way of resisting awakening. I seem to play unconscious games to get people to reject and abandon me so that I can perpetuate the victim story.

Having said all those things with the intent of full honesty and transparency, I am totally down to work with you if you still feel to! I am here to be open to whatever seeming process needs to unfold!

I have read and understood the disclaimer. Once again, in the spirit of true transparency, I am not very functional on the human level. I have isolated myself a lot and avoided getting any job, having intimate relationships, and generally being a normal human participating in society. I do seem to have some trauma from childhood; motherly neglect from a possibly narcissistic mother (could be my projection). OCD patterns, that have dissipated some but have not disappeared. However, I seem to have been unable to repair or fix any of my problems effectively. Though much healing has happened. It sometimes feels like I have only managed to exacerbate my seeming "problems". Turning to the Course, God and Jesus seems to be the only thing that has really helped me calm down. But there does seem to be extreme neurosis here. I am still willing to enter this process! Let me know if that is okay with you!

What arises while reading the "LU is Not..." section is deep peace and deep primal fear of losing myself at the same time.

I understand the housekeeping guidelines and will be as succinct as possible when it's called for.

I have one question for you! Is this guidance done entirely through forum interaction and posting?

I'm going to be honest about the blue questions even if I know it's wrong from what I "understand". Let me know if I should have answered according to what I actually think... I'm assuming this is to elucidate my illusions...? I'll just go for it! And blurt it out...

How will life change?

Life will change according to my highest expectations. I will become enlightened. I will be free of suffering and finally have everything I want available to me at this moment. I can finally relax and live my highest calling, I can be the hero of the dream and beyond it. My life will flow instead of stagnate and everything will be in sync with my highest self and the perfect and lightest/highest version of reality will manifest instead of reflections of suffering. I won't be locked in old cycles where I repeat manifestations of childhood trauma and abandonment or end up playing the victim. Things will just be easier. I can actually rest as opposed to feeling constant unrest. I will just be able to perform my tasks efficiently and won't have this constant feeling of needing to avoid and delay. Spiritually, everything becomes spacious as I let go of all the human discomfort and just allow that to settle down and stabilize. I will have a better perspective on all the human conditioning and suffering.

How will you change?

I will not exist and have no suffering. I will not be here and will essentially be dead as an individual being... which means I no longer have to suffer existence! I won't have painful agendas and will do no harm to people around me. I will be guilt free! I can finally pursue what I love without the consequence of constant suffering! I will no longer need people, feel abandonment and deep guilt towards them. I will no longer feel guilt for all my actions! My relationships will no longer be built on guilt! I will be in a transcendent state of peace. I will be healed of all my pain... mental, energetic, and physical. I will feel deep love and bliss all the time. Emotions and human states will arise as tiny blips that are easily healed with pure light and radiance! There will be no one here at all to suffer the appearances and experiences! I won't feel OCD about everything and will know the exact right thing that is guided by the Holy Spirit and the Universe instantaneously. Thus all will be well and in alignment. I won't obsess over how other people see me and hide away because of it. I won't feel like a constant failure as this will dissipate and I can finally flow through life naturally. I can function normally without guilt, fear, and hatred. I think I cannot conceive of what a higher state will bring because I cannot see it from where I am now.... because ideas never leave their source. Maybe it's beyond me!

What will be different?

Suffering the need for everything to be different will not be in my direct experience. Suffering will not arise in general! Thoughts about everything that is not healed or needs to be healed will not arise. Or there will be no interest in them. Figuring out how to get my life right, and how I can get out of my current circumstances will not arise. I won't have as many little physical issues and worries show up because those are manifested by the ego's resistance patterns. I won't have constant social anxiety. I'll feel okay and at ease. I won't be in a constant tailspin of my own making. There will be a total allowing with no need to hold onto or reject what arises at all. Just no valuing of any fragment of apparent arising because it is just suffering.

What is missing?

I can't seem to function normally and seem to have too much painful old conditioning in my system. So, clarity is missing. Okayness, peace and rest are missing because I'm constantly worried and anxious. Perfection is missing because all these human flaws, conditionings, and circumstances block it. My purpose and how life was supposed to be, my success is missing. I was supposed to be special and great and I'm often down in the dumps instead. This is not how it's supposed to be. I'm on the wrong timeline and the right one is missing. Routine and the right goals are missing. Stability is missing. My mission on Earth is definitely missing. My higher calling and true capacity are missing. My true purpose is missing. My higher state of consciousness is missing. The true insight I need is missing. The right perspective is missing. Surrender and acceptance are missing. Constant and uninterrupted peace is missing. The right community and people are missing. The right teachings and teachers are missing. The right wisdom is missing. The correct way of interpreting and perceiving is missing. The right character, conditioning, motivation and knowledge is missing here. Freedom from suffering is missing. The light of God is missing. Money, power, sex and women are missing. Respect, love, affection and the right position in society are missing. The means to wipe out all of these ideas and forms of illusions is missing. My mom's love is missing. Restful peace and an end to all my suffering, pride and pain is missing. Self-improvement, motivation and a capacity for change are missing. The right catalyst to get me moving in the right direction and on my purpose in life is missing. Simplicity is missing. self-mastery is missing. Help and compassion are missing. The winner in me is missing. The final answer to it all is missing. I can go on and on about all the things that are wrong and missing lol. Ultimately, rest from it all is missing!

I realize I just wrote a lot of nonsense. I felt like I needed to. I can re-do this if you want me to answer the questions more succinctly and from a "wiser" perspective. This is just honest. Let me know what you feel to do next! I wrote a lot but I figured I should let it all be shown before beginning. Thank you so much for your time!

Much Love,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Hi Brian,

*whew* That is a *lot*

So, let's see, first:

I have one question for you! Is this guidance done entirely through forum interaction and posting?

Yes. It works. I've guided over 100 clients to awakening, and probably another 100 have quit. The only way to fail is to quit.

Just a heads up that I am additionally committed to "Posting in Purpose" for the David Hoffmeister "Tribe of Christ" community which entails creating 2 social media posts per week. And I am expected to make 1-4 social media reel clips for the "Clips for Christ" team every week for the same community. I just feel to make you aware of this right now.

Good to know. We do prefer that you focus only on LU for the time of your guiding and save this sort of thing for later, but we will see how it goes.

Those 4 questions are about expectations. The ones you listed are extraordinarily high and impossible to meet.

To begin with, please watch these 3 short videos:

Look With Honesty

https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c

Falling

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

Sometimes, Waking Up Goes Back and Forth a Bit

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

I could no longer work with ACIM, myself, after learning about Direct/Actual Experience. So much unnecessary stuff fell away.

What arises while reading the "LU is Not..." section is deep peace and deep primal fear of losing myself at the same time.

That is probably similar to your likely reaction to my next question:

What comes up when reading that there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be?


Much love,

[Anastacia42]

And regarding your life challenges, please watch this from beginning to end - maybe twice

https://youtu.be/gaMpVeR6PUc

We don't facilitate The Work here, but it woukd be very good for you to do more of it.

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hey Stacy,

Liked the videos! Thanks!

What comes up when reading that there is no separate "self," never has been and never will be?

I feel an oscillation between peace and resistance or fear happening. I know it is true (that there is no self) but don't want to accept it. There is a push and pull dynamic of "I do want this" and "I don't want this" to be true. I feel the peace in the belly. I experience self-criticism toward the peace. The peace seems to spread through my system now. And I also feel guilt and shame in the belly. But, these sensations are overtaken by the peace. Then there is this looking and inquiry happening "who am I?". It's almost like the inquiry is coming up against uncomfortable sensations and emotions. I feel like no one is writing this now. But, I don't know this for sure. There is an energy or thought form coming up that is saying "I am right". I rest and I resist and it goes back and forth like this. There is this desire to avoid direct experience. I feel this hopelessness underneath. But this recognition that it's just resistance. And more gentle peace. It's almost like the peace is there but it is held at bay or something... or not allowed. Like it's not good enough. What I really feel under all this is like kind of a hopeless depression around the thought of no self. But, then that too is sort of gently brought peace.

That's all I've got for now!

I will watch the last video you sent, on trauma, soon!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Hi Brian,

I feel this hopelessness underneath. But this recognition that it's just resistance. And more gentle peace.

Most of what you wrote was thinking & labels, the content of thought. Please read the following carefully & then answer the questions in blue.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I think I understand. Only direct experience! Does this mean that for the "no separate self" question I would describe specific sensations and changes in perceptive qualities I experience as I answer that? Like, "I feel a light tickling sensation in the belly" etc.

Let me know if this is correct and what I can do next.

Kind Regards,

Brian

[GoBro]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

So I would like the above clarified and to know if there are steps I can take after. Just to answer the blue highlight directly! Thanks!

[Anastacia42]

These pointers will answer that question and give you practice.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I did the exercises as prescribed!

Here is my list:

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Hearing youtube frequencies (hz) playing, simply=sound
Smelling green tea with ginger, simply=smell
Seeing the computer screen, simply=image/color
Feeling the itch on my skin, simply=sensation
Feeling a tickle in belly, simply=sensation
Thoughts about doing the exercise a wrong/right, simply=thought
Tasting ginger tea, simply=taste
Seeing the water glass on my desk, simply=image/color
smelling the fresh air outside, simply=smell
Feeling the clothes on my skin, simply=thought
Thoughts about being Brian in his bedroom, simply=thought
Hearing cars driving by my apartment, simply=sound
Thoughts about what I should do with my life, simply=thought
Feeling sensations inside my body, simply=sensation
Thoughts about the sensations meaning something bad, simply=thought
Thoughts about needing to go to bed, simply=thought
Thoughts about discomfort, simply=thought
Feeling my gums and teeth, simply=sensation
Thought about the sensations in my mouth, simply=thought
Feeling sensations that lightly tickle in the solar plexus, simply=sensation
Thoughts about what the sensations in the solar plexus mean, simply=thought

That's all I've got for now! When I did the exercises during the day I did not say the entire sentence in my head like: "hearing cars outside, simply=sound" but would only repeat the labels: "color/image", "sound", "smell", "taste", "sensation", "thought". Is this correct? I took the act of smelling the tea or coffee to be the first part of the sentence for example and wouldn't say the whole thing as perceptions moved too fast to repeat the entire sentence. Thank you for the exercise!

With Love,

Brian

[GoBro]

PS

I'm starting to think now I was supposed to say the whole thing for everything... I'll start doing that now!

[Anastacia42]

Good, Brian. You've got it.

The point is to recognize that all those stories & labels on the left are made up, just like "self. "

So, try this...


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving,

[GoBro]

Hi Stacy,

I did the exercise but did notice my tendency to write "my" in the second part without the 'I' and in the first label some emotions. Should I do it again? I made very few of those errors and did correct them as soon as I saw them!

Anyway, the questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

It feels like the one without the 'I' is truer because it is clear what the direct experience is right now.

2. What is here without labels?

Just seeing.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They affect the experience! Labels make a filter of reality. Ultimately I think labels don't really affect the experience but that doesn't seem to be clear yet.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

I notice the body was less contracted and more relaxed in the lower abdomen, chest, and jaw when the 'I' was removed from the exercise and it was just the labels.

Let me know what I can do next. I'm not 100% I did this correctly! So, let me know if that's the case! Thank you!

Kind Regards,

Brian

[Anastacia42]

Please share your lists with & without "I."

Thanks,