Directly experiencing the free-fall of the unknown

[Jenuine1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the person I thought I was is a made up tangle of thoughts and beliefs gathered along the way from childhood.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance in seeing through the stories I've made up in my mind that I've been believing which create an illusion of a separate person, support from others who understand to free myself of the entanglements of the mind that keep me from the Truth.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Direct pointing out of when my mind is caught in a story. Being able to be related to, understood and seen through. A guide who gets me, sees through my confusion and supports me in ways. that help me to see clearly and unravel and let go of my illusions.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Breathwork, meditation, self improvement courses, Byron Katie, on my own discoveries.
I would like to request Vince Schubert as my Guide.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[vinceschubert]

Hi Jenni

A guide who gets me, sees through my confusion and supports me in ways. that help me to see clearly and unravel and let go of my illusions.

What confusion? What illusions?

much love

vince

[Jenuine1]

The confusion about what being awake is. I've listened to Mooji and I'm very aware of being aware. I can sense the thoughts, yet believe very few of them. I feel sensation such as this common one: There is a seeking inside my chest. A pull to grasp outward. I'll be sitting in the silence in the morning hearing the birds and water within no boundaries. hyper present and beautiful! Or I find myself alone all weekend. Sometimes peaceful, but lately uncomfortable. Then the thoughts pull away:
to go get ice cream, eat anything, do something, call someone, go somewhere, watch a YouTube, a movie. Anything but here/now. It thinks it’s taking care of me. Keeping from wasting my life. From doing nothing. Sitting too long. the thought, my poor dog, all I do is sit. Being useless and boring. Anxious from being nothing, a no-one, non-existant. Un-engaged in life.

I can see this isn't true and am learning to feel into it rather than act on it. There's still a fragment of wondering if it is true. I am un-engaged in life and only sit alone a lot. I guess this is where the confusion is.

The illusions would be, I feel like I'm in a body. I can feel the couch or table sensation, yet there still seems to be separation. So it's the illusion is separation.

[Jenuine1]

also, I've sat with many feelings when I'm triggered over the past years, yet I'm finding it more difficult to feel. I want to go deeply and I guess right now it's the aloneness that's triggering me. Sometimes I feel like I'm having a hard time accessing them. When you spoke to me it brought out feelings that I'm very good at suppressing. I haven't cried is so long.

[Jenuine1]

Hi again Vince ,
I'm looking at being awareness of being aware and the question : I'm not the person, I'm not the thoughts or emotions, so Who'/what is watching? Who/what is aware? somehow that's me? but who/what?

yep, lots happening...

[Jenuine1]

Good Morning Vince.
I've found there is also no witness.

I woke up sensing my body today. Then a walk and Morning coffee:
I’m going to die now, kill myself today. But who’s doing the killing? There is no me. It’s in the looking that no one is doing. In it, Truth is revealed.
My mind thinks it’s so smart to have figured this out. It thinks it knows how. Thinks it will find the way to something, but it only finds nothing. My mind still batts around the glass jar. The final fizzles of grasping? Then I drop down and be with the breeze, sound of birds and water. Oh, (sigh) to just be with my thoughts.

warmth,
Jen

[Jenuine1]

I am awake, it seems my thoughts are still toying with me.

is it possible to post too often here? Feelings of being too much. Should I save draft and post once at the end of day?
What works for you?
also fear of saying: hugs Jen, Do I mean it? Yes/but I don't know you so well to say it.
appreciation, Jen, but am I pulling for OKness? I do appreciate, haha, but my mind says shhhhhh

[vinceschubert]

Hi Jen,

The confusion about what being awake is.

i can invent a story about what being awake is, tell it to you and your mind will immediately check it for satisfaction.
Just as a sensation (separate from a thought story) contains no information an no imperative to act on, neither does a question. It's the added story that promises satisfaction I an answer qualifies.
See for yourself. Check and see if any question really has an inbuilt imperative to be answered. Isn't any answer just more stories to add to the question story?
Here, there is utter contentment to leave a question unanswered. Recognizing that answering questions is just more mind promises of satisfaction.
Do this exercise and we will see what you discover;
Take a cup and place it in front of you.
Start looking at it and notice thoughts labelling what you see.
Consider the process of looking.
Consider the process of seeing.
Watch thoughts as you consider who is seeing. Notice what happens to seeing as you consider this. Did the seeing stop?
Go back to simply watching thoughts as you look at the cup.
After a while of watching thoughts, they will get bored and slow down. Now look for spaces between thoughts.
Focus on seeing in the spaces. They may be milliseconds, but notice them.
There will be no labelling. ..and anyway, the colours, the textures, the shapes, etc will be too subtle, too complex to be accurately described. Notice that language is completely inadequate to articulate the variations of hues, the texture, the forms.
As this seeing is happening, ask yourself can there be a seer or a seen without the seeing stopping.
Is there only seeing?
When you finish seeing, do you then recognize that cup is a concept. A cup that has uses and takes up space, and need washing after use? A concept that includes shape, form, color, what it is intended to be used for.
..but we aren't actually seeing it anymore. We look at it but recognize a vessel to contain something. The details have vanished leaving an impression.

Ok, you've written a huge amount to work with (which is fine) I don't want to overload you at this point. We are going for depth, not quantity.
Don't be inhibited about what or how much you write. Expressing it is valuable. Me reading it is valuable.
The stuff that I'm not attending to today will come up again if it isn't dealt with. Many 'issues' have a common foundation, so often one will topple others.

much love

vince

[Jenuine1]

Good Morning Vince

I notice the cup goes flat, 2 dimensional a bit. The mind keeps trying to make it a thing, but the handle looses meaning and the lip doesn’t even seem to go inside the cup.

I’ve also glimpsed that I’m not even the one who is aware. I used to find comfort in it was possible that at least I was the awareness that continued on after death. Now there’s a bit of subtle nervousness about death. What is there if there’s absolutely no me anywhere.

Huggs, Jen

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Jen,

I notice the cup goes flat, 2 dimensional a bit. The mind keeps trying to make it a thing, but the handle looses meaning and the lip doesn’t even seem to go inside the cup.

What happens when you ask who is looking?
Did you discover a difference between looking and seeing?

What is there if there’s absolutely no me anywhere.

I have no idea.
The only thing that is actual is current experiencing, so I'm suspicious of anyone that claims to know.
We will get into it a bit more soon, but the "how" or "why" questions are rabbit holes that have no bottom. If you confine any questions to "what" (and look for answers in current experience) you will eliminate a lot of rubbish.

with love

vince

[Jenuine1]

Yes I guess even rhetorical questions are the mind trying to understand

So nothing is looking it’s just looking

The mind is quiet. I will be practicing this more today.
Thank you

[Jenuine1]

I'm noticing that seeing is describing and making it a certain thing. Only seeing can see it as a certain thing that's learned. Looking has no commentary. It doesn't describe or catorgorize anything. It just looks from nowhere. There's no meaning or description even as a vessle.

[Jenuine1]

It feels like the sensation (in) the apparent body as a contraction is felt as “me”. But it’s just contraction or tingling, etc it’s just sensation. Not a me. There’s just looking and sensation, it doesn’t make that a ‘me”

[vinceschubert]

Hi Jen, i'll (probably) get to this tomorrow night. I'm travelling at the moment.

love

vince

[Jenuine1]

Ok thanks☺️