Wanting to Make Sure

[Bluejay]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Having no real inherent self means that there is no inherent 'doer' of actions. No agent within that controls life, makes decisions, or decides what to think or not think. It is something that points to nothing, or an illusion. When inquired into, only parts are seen. There may be sensations, which are then labeled by the mind as 'me' or 'self'.

What are you looking for at LU?
To make sure that I have seen the truth, and am not in la la land. I'd like to be questioned so there can be exploration if the illusion has truly been seen through, and that all relevant nooks and crannies have been illuminated.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Honest questioning into anything that I say that might be unclear when it comes to seeing that there is no inherent self. I'm okay with any question, and willing to dive into even the deepest fears that may bubble up to the surface.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Around 20 years of seeking, which includes meditation, emotional work, and inquiry into beliefs and thoughts. It is only in the last 4-5 years that an interest in inquiry has come about. I do remember inquiry first having an impact in 2011, when a thought started repeating itself in my mind. The thought simply kept asking: Who is this one? Inquiry has intensified in the last year or so, and become the sole focus.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi Bluejay,

Let's cut to the chase. We have 6 "final" questions that we use to be sure we've covered everything.

Please use the Quote function to quote the question & give succinct answers.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Here are the questions:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Bluejay]

Hi Stacy!

Time zone: UTC +3 / EEST

You can call me Henk.

Let's cut to the chase. We have 6 "final" questions that we use to be sure we've covered everything.

I like it!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No to all questions. There is no 'self' and never was. It was/is an illusion.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It doesn't exist in direct experience. So it seems like the illusion is created by the mind either by referring to itself or by referring to a feeler, hearer, doer, thinker.

I remember just last year feeling intense emotions. There was someone in despair. But now, even with similar emotions, there's just emotions. Looking within, there's no feeler. Just 'emptiness'.

Or if kids are making a lot of noise, in the past there was a feeling of 'this is being done to me'. So the mind creates a self that is uncomfortable and uses that as a springboard to whatever suits its needs, such as irritation, anger, and frustration in this case, which reinforces the self. It becomes a reinforcing loop unless you look at the core of it.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The shift is still quite fresh. I remember standing in the kitchen making food, and suddenly it dawned that there's 'just this'. I closed my eyes and felt sensations dancing but no one owning them, just emptiness.

The feeling is freedom and peace. My mind has always been a worrier, seeing what could go wrong and what is wrong. Those thoughts still occur, but there's no attachment to them in the sense that there's an 'I' worrying or 'I' having to do something about the mind's interpretations. If something needs doing, it happens.

Oh, and music sounds psychedelic. It still does. It feels much more intimate.

And the urge to watch any YouTube videos on spirituality is gone. Even the urge to watch videos on inquiry is almost gone. All I care about now is what works.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I don't remember the last bit, but I remember that the suffering had been building up over many years. Eventually there was a determination to see who was in so much despair. I kept finding nothing, and then after a few weeks or months (don't remember exactly) the kitchen realization happened as described above.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

There are decisions, but no decider. For example, deciding what to have for breakfast happens by itself. In the past the mind might've interjected and said 'I'm choosing toast for breakfast'. But when I look, there are simply actions happening.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention bubbles up from nothing, or I have no way to know where it comes from. Where did my intention to start on this path come from? I remember the catalyst from 20 years ago. It was a TV program that sparked something within me and that led to the intention to look into less mainstream things, which eventually led to meditation and even later, inquiry. It all happened without a 'doer'.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

There is no free will. Who is deciding to choose one thing over the other? It simply happens by what this body/mind is genetically programmed to do, what it has experienced, and so on.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Life presents choices, and it seems life makes choices through this body/mind.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is an illusion, because there is no one that could be in control. Controlling actions can still happen, but without a controller. In the past, I tried to control how much I exercised, but in the end, the body always did things on its own. Today, I don't worry about exercise. I trust the body to do what it needs to do. Even saying that is too much, because to trust or not simply appears. I'm glad it's there. The body is definitely more relaxed because of it.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

I have no idea what the source of things happening is ... Life? Energy? Life seemingly presents a circumstance and my body reacts to it or not, and then on life goes.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Nothing. Responsibility exists, but no one being responsible. I am, in standard terms, responsible for a few children, but that responsibility happens without the burden of someone being responsible. It's built into whatever we are.

6) Anything to add?

Not at this time!

Thank you!

[Anastacia42]

Great!

Now your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions.

Watch this space & your PM above.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Well, no one had any questions & our conversation is complete.

Watch your PMs above for more information.

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

This Sunday meeting with Ilona.

To get a link to Zoom email me at admin@ilonaciunaite.com or use the old one.

Everyone is invited.

[Bluejay]

Thanks again!

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure.