Stillness speaks

[Pammy]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I am wondering if you need any volunteers at Liberation Unleashed?
I am happy to be of service and happy to talk with you through some face time. There is no personal self or internal sense of I within the body here. I write on Quora under my name Pamela Mills as a reference (lol).
I am not that savvy with technology but can learn. Thank you Pam.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm not looking for anything.
I am offering another expression of beingness. LIving as being and the compulsion from here to endevour to express the unexpressable, to invite awareness back to awareness of awareness.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Nothing. There is no one here so no expectations of anything. I guess there is some recipe in the questions asked of the participants which will be shared. Really this is consciousness mirroring itself as itself while the self endeavours to grasp what can not be grasped with the mind simultaneously.
The dissolution of personal self is by Grace not by questions and answers so anything leading up to Grace has nothing to do with the "accident" and simultaneously everything to do with it. Lol..

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am here as life. Anything else is, a story.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Yes. we can always use more guides here. Thank you for offering.

First, will you please answer our "final" questions so we can see where you are?

Please use the Quote function to quote each question then reply underneath.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Much love,

[Pammy]

[) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?]
No there is not. Yes there was until about five years ago.

[Pammy]

[ Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.)
I find it hard to explain the separate self because that is not the case here. With the dissolution of that self it is hard to recall what it was like, except I felt a lack, a disconnect and longed most of my life to be free of myself. I looked out in the outer world for some kind of recognition of the love I am and through suffering and unrequited love finally turned attention back on to what am I?
I was a, seeker since a teenager, a sannyasin of Bhagwan /Osho for years, Barry Long, and then lived with an awakened man for six years before realising nothing was going to rub off on me. Lol. I lived with a narccisst for ten years and through that suffering of the discard which broke the heart totally, and the aloneness afterwards, being an existential aloneness drove the enquiry 360 back on what's alone?

Describe freewill, choice and control.
There is no one to have freewill, there is no one to choose, and no one to control. There is not two. Life is lifeing as this.









Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?]
No there is not. Yes there was until about five years ago.

[Anastacia42]

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

[Pammy]

Have I answered these questions sufficiently?
I have no idea who I am writing too.
All I can say is that there is no personal sense of self here as in a separately percieving chooser, who intends things or feels divided or split. No sense of an I in the body, its simply life unincumbered.. Please let me know if you would like to Skype or something to speak directly and get a sense of "where I'm at". Thank you. Pam Mills.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Pammy,

Will you please Quote each question & then answer underneath.

You're writing to "me" and other guides will read it. We want to make that easy for the volunteers who spend their time looking at your answers.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

We do insist that clients here answer all 6 questions properly before moving forward. This is not optional.

If you want to go to a zoo meeting we have a couple. The next one is…

Sunday, (my) Monday.

Our next one is: 1 May 06:00 AM Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney time

You can convert time zones here; dateful.com

Click here to Join Zoom Meeting

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

But you will still have to write answers to the 6 questions, properly quoting the question above each one.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

To respond to one of your answers:

[) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?]
No there is not. Yes there was until about five years ago.

Really? And where was this "self" that you say was there until 5 years ago? How did it exist and then not exist?

Much love,

[Anastacia42]

This is another Zoom meeting. But again, the questions, here in the forum, with quoting is needed.


There will be one on the 4th of May 5 pm UK time, so whatever time zone is ok for her... here is the link Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88905540192...
Meeting ID: 889 0554 0192
Passcode: 170743

[Pammy]

Thank you
I am having a few difficulties learning the copy and paste thing on my phone even though I've seen the video lol. Hence not having done so yet. I find the questions difficult to answer also. One thing is, I dont know. I don't know what self dissappeared? I don't have answers.
Maybe I'm not suited for the platform,as the simplicity of being has left a not knowing.
Just as I don't know where a flame goes when it's blown out? Was it there or just appeared to be there? Was the self there? It really doesn't matter just as my dream last night..
I will persevere in learning how to operate the platform. Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Quoting is simply block the text & click Quote. I'm on my phone most of the time.

Usually, people who weren't guided here don't guide others here. We have a process that works. You could try reading other threads, but that may not be enough for where you are.

You may be right that this isn't a fit for you.

There was never a "self." It was only a story, a lie.

We guide here through Direct Experience. This is the explanation pointer for that:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


We have many pointers like this that we use.

I could try guiding you, but that may be difficult if you can't answer questions.

Let me know what you'd like to do. If you ever get the Quoting & answering the 6 questions, we can go from there - or not. It's fine to agree this isn't a fit for where you are.

Much love,

[Pammy]

[2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.]
How do explain in detail something that doesn't exist?
You ask me to describe the separate self from how I see it now, there is no separate self here so how can I describe it?
I can describe what's seen, felt, heard but I can not describe an entity separate from experience itself that appears to be having that experience. There is experience here but no experiencer. I feel this question is for someone experiencing life from a dual perspective. That's not the case here. Because no self exists here there is no reference for it. This is life direct. I call it life lifeing, arising as this while simultaneously still, unmoving silent fullness/emptiness that's happening /not happening to no one. There is no way I can in words express this yet there is a compulsion to do so, but that's life's compulsion not "mine" because no me is here. There is not two.

[Pammy]

[3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.]
How does it feel to see no self exists?
I would have to be thinking no self exists and that's silly lol..
I can only answer how it feels now and its purely body sensation of comfort lying on the bed, goodness, an abiding goodness of sensation.
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Living as being is like living as a river. To ask the river what's the difference from after you went under the bridge, the river couldn't answer its ever flowing. This is life lifeing.
Please report from the last few days?
There is no thing I want, that wanter doesn't exist. This process feels quite dry so I understand the comment that not many people who have not seen the dream of self through liberation unleashed volunteer on the platform.
I thought I'd have a lovely chat from one being to another on zoom and take it from there lol..
I had heard a talk on Batgap a long time ago of someone who had inadvertently lost the sense of personal self through this platform and someone else as well, this is to do with a certain ripeness and or through Grace...
If someone is on this platform it implies to me a genuine existential enquiry, although this comes through as the mind, it is the drive of consciousness awakening to itself as itself.

[Pammy]

[4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?]
What made me look at what's looking?
That was five years ago.
Living alone in a house after being cheated on by a narccistic partner of ten years. The trauma bond was strong, the resulting sense of aloneness palpable. I remember one night sitting by the fire and in the total anguish of utter alones looking at what am I?
There was a 360 degree inversion on self to be... Or not be.... No thing... Void...
Game up..
After that there was weeks of coming more into being. Intermittent episodes of laughing /crying without knowing anything.
I remember crying to god one day saying out loud take this self back, I am giving you back this self because I can not do it, this self doesn't work and as I was calling this out to God I saw it was I God calling out to take back this self, it is no good. It was one and the same voice and I laughed and laughed and laughed...
This was Grace...
The slipping away of self was like a thief in the night, I read a piece of writing of Bhodi Avasa before bed one night and on awakening the next morning I had written in my diary no sense of an inner self or I is in the body. So it was very gentle and I had to pinpoint it by looking back on the diary for when that self ceased to appear to exist.