Working through the first three fetters & not identifying with not identifying!

[Aya23]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the "I" that I identify as is an illusion, made of external influences since birth as well as the stories that my ego thinks up day in, day out. There is no real, inherent 'self' because without the ego and without the stories of regrets and expectations it creates, nothing is there, just silence, just being, without a real, inherent 'self'.

What are you looking for at LU?
For guidance / peer-to-peer support. To engage with a community of people, and / or a guide, who can talk to me more about this clear realisation of the absence of a separate self. And what it means to navigate through it without identifying as not identifying. Also explore the fetters together with the guide.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I am new to the non-dualism philosophy and it is my perception that having a guided conversation about all the fetters, about the absence of a separate self can be more helpful than doing it all on my own.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
(Vedic) meditation, guided ayahuasca cerimony, journaling, self-compassion exercises, reading books, listening to podcasts and watching videos on the subject, yoga, breathwork, attending talks on non-dualism.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Aya23]

Straight after I submitted the form to register to Liberation Unleashed, I realized that I overthought everything - the questions and my answers. That I intentionally and "strategically" constructed my replies, off the back of my "people-pleasing" patterns, as well as fear of being rejected, while wanting to "impress" and come across as if "I get it", giving "perfect" answers.

So was I being honest? Probably not. It was my ego having a field trip. If I were to resend the form, I would now say: that I am feeling a little lost and confused about approaching non-dualism in my day to day. That when I'm listening to podcasts a lot of it makes sense and I feel I have even experienced some brief moments of awareness, of just being. But then out and about at work, with friends, etc... I fall back into this habit of wanting to impress / please / fix / solve. Like I'm trying to control reality. And then thinking back to non-dualist talks and snapping into the now while accepting that this is what it is, confusing at times. But trying hard to think differently, act differently, talk and listen differently. And I just feel like it's all a complete illusion and at the same time I don't really know how to just be now. I want to be more authentic but what is being authentic?

Everything I say and write here, or when talking to people, makes me feel more confused, because there's a level of awareness / an observer in me that is like existing side by side with my ego, that feels like it's making my ego go nuts - almost at the same time as I talk or write. Then nothing feels real yet I don't know quite how to go about it in the moment. It's a ton of identifying and also identifying with not identifying. Constantly.

So how can a guided conversation bring me closer to figuring that out - or is there no figuring out to do? If there isn't, then what is there? Nothing? If there's nothing, why does a lot about me bother me? Finding contentment with what is while also being aware of what isn't - how do I apply that in my daily life, in conversations, in conflict, in parenting, etc. when these (assumed) patterns and conditioning of the ego keep getting in the way (to please/fix/solve/impress)? This ego of ours thinks it's so smart, when really, it isn't (and simultaneously is!).

That's my honest answer!

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

We don't guide the Ten Fetters here, only point to seeing no self. Usually, Fetter 2, Doubt and Fetter 3, Rites & Rituals fall at the same time. Once that happens, I can invite you to a group that works with the rest of the Fetters.

There is no "figuring out." There's only LOOKING.

Much love,

[Aya23]

We don't guide the Ten Fetters here, only point to seeing no self. Usually, Fetter 2, Doubt and Fetter 3, Rites & Rituals fall at the same time.

Thank you Anastacia for clarifying that!

Once that happens, I can invite you to a group that works with the rest of the Fetters.

Got it!

There is no "figuring out." There's only LOOKING.

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

I can take another client now, so...

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you

to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Aya23]

Thank you Stacy!

I only just read the notification in my email that you posted. I will review, read and reply all between today and tomorrow. Just wanted to inform you that I did see your post!

So my answer is yes to daily communication. You can call me Aya and my time zone is CEST.

With gratitude,

Aya

[Anastacia42]

Great. Reply to the questions & we will move forward.

Loving

[Aya23]

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?

How life is perceived will change.

How will you change?

I see the change being clarity, awareness (though right now, in this very moment, I sense clarity and awareness and I can't see how it can be MORE but rather in a different way) and feeling acceptance for what is, what arises, whatever it is. I am aware right now that these are assumptions and expectations.

What will be different?

Nothing and everything. I see myself no longer constantly seeking and no longer identifying myself as a seeker.

What is missing?

Nothing is missing right now. I feel excited now that I have you as a Guide to explore all together.

With gratitude,

Aya

[Anastacia42]

Very good, Aya.

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no self, never has been, and never will be? That it was all a made up story?

Loving,

[Aya23]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no self, never has been, and never will be? That it was all a made up story?

Right now I feel calm and peace reading those statements.

[Anastacia42]

That's great.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[Aya23]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am clear about this and do not need any further clarification right now.

With gratitude,

Aya

[Anastacia42]

Great, so here's a pointer to practice:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Aya23]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Seeing a glass, simply= image / colour
Smelling the water inside, simply = smell
Feeling the glass, simply = sensation
Tasting the water, simply = taste
Hearing the water dripping, simply = sound
Thought about dripping the water, simply = thought

Seeing a mobile phone, simply= image/color
Smelling the silicone phone cover, simply = smell
Feeling the silicone phone cover, simply = sensation
Tasting the saliva in my mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the ticking of the clock on the wall, simply = sound
Thought about the clock ticking, simply = thought

Seeing a strawberry, simply= image/color
Smelling the strawberry, simply = smell
Feeling the seeds of the strawberry, simply = sensation
Tasting the strawberry, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of my teeth biting into the strawberry, simply = sound
Thought about biting into the strawberry, simply = thought

Seeing a pen, simply= image/color
Smelling the ink, simply = smell
Feeling the plastic pen, simply = sensation
Tasting the plastic of the pen, simply = taste
Hearing the teeth grasping the plastic pen, simply = sound
Thought about biting the plastic pen, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Great. Those are all correct.

Now try this:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,