Fetters

[Nomind2noi]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I'm not my thoughts. There is no separate self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm currently working on fetters. Would like to break the habitual selfing pattern, peel off layers of identities and experience reality as it's. Be one with life without the self constantly in the way, to see in the seen, there is only the seen.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Be able to help me see through my illusions/beliefs. Pointing to blind spots I couldn't see, working with attachment I have trouble to let go, doubts with related underline fears. Direct me with practice how to see without mental assumptions

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started spiritual path since summer 2020. Never meditated before that, still find meditation is difficult for me as it's very hard to quiet the mind. Self inquiry leads to a lot openings.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

We don't guide the Ten Fetters here, only point to seeing no self. Usually, Fetter 2, Doubt and Fetter 3, Rites & Rituals fall at the same time. Once that happens, we can invite you to a group that works with the rest of the Fetters.

Much love,

[Nomind2noi]

Dear Stacy,
Thank you very for your reply! Yes I realized you don’t guide 10 Fetters after I set up with LU and read some of the posts. Wonder if you have time to guide me through the 1st Fetter?
Really appreciate it! 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Sure, I will guide you. Here is my usual initial post:



My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

Hi Stacy,

This is Amy. My time zone is central time in the US.

Thank you so much for willing to guide me!

Yes, sounds good.
I'm ready.

I have to say those are hard core questions. Not sure what to think, below are my answers for now.

How will life change?

Life will be light, enjoyable, real as it is, less fluffy wishy washy stuff.

How will you change?

I will be more at peace, trust and flow with life, no resistance to what is, wishing things to be different.

What will be different?

The dreamer, the pretend self, the director of life, pushing and pulling wheel of life, put a finger on the scale will be gone.

What is missing?

The rock solid assurance that everything is ok. The deep calmness at the bottom of the ocean even when tsunami hits.

Thanks!

[Anastacia42]

Hi Amy,

Thank you. All is not roses after awakening. It is a beginning rather than an end. Seeing will come and go for a long time. There will be a lot of clean up of beliefs held before you saw that there was no self, But yes there will be an underlying sense of peace.

What comes up when is read there is no self, never has been, and never will be?


Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

Thanks for saying that. So many misleading teachings out there, really caused a lot of confusion. Like no self, they made it sounded so mysterious, dramatic and special, seems only a few deep realized people can achieve that - the end of everything.

What comes up when is read there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

I'm fascinated. To me "self" means body+mind. If the body is gone, I'm gone. When I was around 5 years old, I imagined what death would be like, I went to a super dark quiet place, got really scared, believed death is eternal darkness and decided would never go back there again...
When you say there is never has been a self, I felt a sense of relief and freedom. I'm excited to explore further.
Let the fun begin :-)

[Anastacia42]

Great. It's not mysterious & it's very do-able, except there's really no "doing" to it.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

Awesome!

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

So true. I need to remember this.

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Spot on. Great pointing. Need to remember this one as well :-)

Please let me know if you are clear about this

Crystal clear.
Let's go!

[Anastacia42]

Excellent. guide. Now try this:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

Great exercise. Most activities don't include eating, taste will be missing from some of below reports.

Seeing an apple, simply =image/color
Smelling the apple, simply = smell
Feeling the shape of the apple, simply = sensation
Tasting the apple, simply = taste
Hearing chewing the apple, simply = sound
Thought about eating an apple, simply = thought

Morning walk:
Seeing sidewalk, houses, trees etc, simply = image/color
Smelling fresh air, simply = smell
Feeling feet on the ground, simply = sensation
Hearing birds chipping, simply = sound
Thought about walking outside, simply =thought

Seeing an airplane in the sky, simply = image/color
Hearing airplane flying, simply =sound
Thought about a plane just flew over, simply =thought

Seeing a glass, simply = image/color
Smelling a smoothie, simply = smell
Feeling hand holding glass, simply = sensation
Tasting the smoothie, simply = taste
Hearing TV at the background, simply = sound
Thought about drinking a smoothie, simply =thought

More to come....

[Anastacia42]

Great. That's enough.

Let's take the next step...


u]Mind Labeling Experience[/u]

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

Now it got tricky. The 1st 10 minutes, writing down experiences with "I" went quick and easy. The 2rd 10 minutes started ok, then everything slowed down big time. All I could write was seeing, hearing, feeling, breathing then pretty much repeating the same thing, really not much to write. I stopped with about 5 minutes in, thought I probably didn't do it correctly. I took a break, re-started the 20 minutes exercise. Same result. Then I tried to do alternating with I see/seeing; I hear/hearing; I feel/feeling... and finally did 5 minutes exercise without the "I" 1st, 2rd 5 minutes with "I" added.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

;
Hard to say. The exercise with "I" felt like I was so busy recording experiences, not really experiencing.
The exercise without the "I", felt that nobody was there experiencing anything. Then how one can say there is even an experience?

2. What is here without labels?

Without labels, what's here is what it's, like a matter of fact. Label doesn't seem necessary.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

On the surface, it seems labels are describing experiences. But it's not true when I really feel into it. Labels are learned words added on experiences, have nothing to do with actual experience.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Noticed the body sensations more. Mostly felt everything slowing down, but not sure what.

Thank you very much for your time! 🙏

[Anastacia42]

Good work.

without the "I", felt that nobody was there experiencing anything. Then how one can say there is even an experience?

You kind of can't, but this pointer doesn't go into that.

In this context, labels only describe the experience. I may give you a pointer or two about that. But first...


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Nomind2noi]

The lie - I enjoy watching horror movies, I like caterpillar.

What is found?

I felt my body tighten up, hands getting cold, the body kind of wanted to shake.

Do you see that?

You meant interpretation of a body Sensation vs Sensation itself?
Yes, sensation itself is directly from the body, physical experience.

Did I get this exercise correctly?