Stumbling through the gate

[Sapkowski99]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I guess I know this, or rather, live it. There is no 'me", not really anyway. There's only a singular unfolding. The entirety of the universes process unfolds from the now. liberation is realizing there is no separate entity, no you. All there is "I am" and things simply unfold. I don't have to think about it, plan for it, or do any such thing.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'd like to discuss what happens after passing through the gateless gate. I've been done now i think for a month or so, however I've not had someone put me through my paces, nor have I had anyone to speak to about this. I think perhaps I'd like to guide at some point, but first I'd like to see how everything works at LU. I'm still finding my feet, and new to this. Its incredible reading through gateless gatecrashers, and how effective and simple your pointing methodology is. People can spend decades seeking, only for a couple short dialogues with the guides and boom, they've stepped through the gate. Its so simple, but of course, the false self dodges and weaves, until eventually the light shine throughs it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A dialogue that looks to question any beliefs, or assumptions I might have about the nature of things. Give me a slap around if need be. Maybe my head is up my ass, maybe not lol. I've seen some dialogues had with seekers on Gateless Gatecrashers so I sort of know what to expect. The guides ask me questions that I must use to inquire into the nature of a false self, and I must examine, and reply with total honesty.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Well, I tried just about everything ahaha. Psychedelics, and seated meditation being the main methods used. I listened to many teachers including: Ram dass, Alan Watts, Trogyam Chungpa Rinpoche, Terrence Mckenna, Jed Mckenna, Eckhart Tolle, Osho. Quite a few people really. I mainly read and listened to many teachers.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

My name is Stacy & I can help you through this, if you would like.

I've been done now i think for a month or so, however I've not had someone put me through my paces, nor have I had anyone to speak to about this.

That's great. How do you know you're through the gate?

Below is my usual introduction. Once you reply, I'll offer you our traditional "final" questions to see where you are. We can always use more guides, so u hope that works out.


One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Sapkowski99]

Hi Stacy,
My name is Adam, and I would appreciate working through this with you.

I am indeed capable of posting daily, so I’m willing to go through with that. As for the disclaimer, I have read it, along with the “Liberation unleashed is not …” FAQ.

Now for the questions aha.

How do you know you're through the gate?

There is no me. There was never a “me”, never an Adam. There was an amalgamation of thoughts, and memories that led to the constant reinforcing of an “Adam”. There was never even a me to pass through the gate. That’s the realisation I suppose, or at least how I’d word it. It all sort of “clicked” when I understood the simplicity of the whole ordeal. There was no self to realise, no bells and whistles, no glorious light, nothing special whatsoever.

How will life change?

The thing is… It really hasn’t in a sense. Its still all chop wood, carry water. There’s nothing particularly special to get out of all this. That’s the great irony about this search for “enlightenment” (note, I no longer particularly like that word) There’s nothing there at all to gain. Nothing. It just ends in the false self being seen through, and what remains is the beingness. The natural state is the best way I’ve heard of describing what is left. And that’s it aha.

How will you change?

“Adam” won’t change at all really. Its just shift in operating systems really. “Adam” used to run the show, and we’re now back to the default operating system. The natural state. Things will continue to unfold, people will still die, and the world will keep spinning. Now I suppose I’m not so much invested in how things will turn out. I’m here to watch it all unfold. Impermanence is the nature of this game, and all things will slowly fall away, including my body and everything and everyone I know.

What will be different?

Hm, not much in the grand sense. No longer identifying as “Adam”, and no longer fuelling that separate sense of self is quite nice. A tremendous amount of energy used to be so preoccupied with maintaining, protecting, and enforcing this self. Now, that’s not the case.

What is missing?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing has ever been missing. It’s the thought that something is missing that leads to the entire dilemma in the first place. It’s what creates the initial separation.

I should add I’m not awfully elegant when it comes to writing, and I apologise if I come across as blunt or not as descriptive as I could be. I’m happy to elaborate on anything above, and I hope the terminology I’ve used makes sense.

Oh, and I should add, my time zone is Australian Eastern Standard Time.
I hope this finds you well.

Kind regards,

Adam.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Adam,

Good answers!

Below are our traditional "final" questions. Please answer those. I realize you mostly have above. These will be shared with other guides, who may have questions.

After that, you'll be invited to our "Unleashed" group where you can talk about what happens after this. You may also be interested in the Ten Fetters group for further exploration via Teleconferences.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Sapkowski99]

Hi Stacy
Thank you for helping with this. The Ten Fetters group definitely sounds interesting; I wouldn’t mind having a look at a Teleconference. The Unleashed group sounds cool too.

Now for the questions:

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There has never been a separate self. Absolutely never. There were only ever thoughts, thoughts such as “I” which were taken for granted to be “me”. There is nothing there at all.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self starts very early on in life. Usually as a child, thoughts start coming through, and identification with objects, and people begin. The “meness” begins, so to speak. A separate self, that is aware of its separateness, no longer in a unitive state. Children get possessive over toys, friends, parents etc. Something within them feels genuinely attacked when things don’t go their way, as if its always them at fault. Phenomena merely happens, it’s the identification with such phenomena which causes the suffering.

I could describe the separate state as one characterised by an underlying level of unease. Never quite content, always searching for a distraction, or a reprieve from the inner dialogue; always looking for the next thing. The separateness makes for the person to always be out of step with life’s flow. Seeking permanent fulfillment always ends in failure, never filling the void, thus the separateness persists. It’s not a nice way to live, however it is still a way.

I no longer live in this separate manner, as I’ve seen through the illusion, and there is simply no way to go back. I can only observe it in people around me, as they have not yet seen through it. Their lives are very much lived by this separate entity. It is their story, their past, their tormentor, and their master. They mistake this phantom for who they truly are, and don’t yet know any other possibility. Kind of bleak, but this is how I see it ahahah.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels… hmm how to put it. Everything feels much the same as it always has aha. I mentioned in my initial post which I posted about a month ago that I was done. Things have settled quite a bit more since then, as I’ve sort of been getting into the groove of this way of living. When I made the post, I was very much still reeling with how simple finishing is. There was nothing extravagant about it whatsoever, no bells and whistles, no radiant light, no cosmic consciousness etc.

As for the last few days, they’ve been peaceful, more so than anything. Life has become a singular unfolding, with no illusory separate entity running the show. The biggest thing I find that’s more liberating than anything, is allowing things to be, and to let go. Not offering any resistance to what comes your way. Its really quite nice, and everything flows much more smoothly.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Hmm, as the thread title “Stumbling through the gate” suggests, I did a lot of stumbling haha. Around twelve months ago, a friend of mine handed me a copy of “The Power of Now”. It was there in that book that I understood how simple things really were. There was a false self, and there was your true nature. Being. Once I saw the separate self for what it was, and how it operated, I found immense peace in just “being”. Nothing extra to add, just bringing presence into daily life. Feeling sense perceptions, going for walks, feeling the inner body. All of these wonderful things that brought about immense peace.

However, it still wasn’t really “over” yet in that sense. I still kept looking to the future for betterment, and that I’d find fulfilment there. It wasn’t until I read Jed Mckenna’s book that it was finally solidified. There’s nothing to get. Never has been, never will be. Jed’s books were great as he held up the “enlightened” or “natural” state for everyone to look at. It was then that I had the aha moment and I knew my quest was over.
It wasn’t long after discovering Jed that I found this forum, and I figured I’d like to talk to someone about this, as I never really have before. And here we are :D

Describe decision & give examples from experience

Decisions only occur naturally and spontaneously from the natural state. Presence must be there. For example, I sometimes wear a beanie to bed when it starts to get cooler where I live. At some point in the night, I must have rolled around and the beanie was displaced. I woke up at some point in the night, and without thinking, reached down the side of my bed. Sure enough, my hand grabbed my beanie, I donned it, and went back to sleep. Simple as that.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Same with above, intention will come about naturally. Its not something one really needs to think about. For example, yesterday I was driving home, and then decided to fuel up my car. It happened quick, decisively, and no need to ponder it.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will doesn’t exist. Life is a free-flowing agent, and you’re either with it, or you’re not. It’s a singular unfolding with no degree of separation, a single “happening”. An example I can think of is being born into the world. I had no control over it, and nor does anyone who’s alive today. It simply happens, and you do what you can with it.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

There is no choice either. There are only situations that garner your attention, upon which right action presents itself. No hesitation, and no need to question it. Hands off the tiller, and the show still goes on. Tonight, at work for example, when choosing what to get for my break. Usually, my go to is a chocolate milk. However tonight, it didn’t happen. I got a Gatorade instead and it was all good.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is interesting. In the separate state, the separate self loves the idea of control. The more control the better. Whether it be at work, or with a partner, finances etc. It’s a possessive and incessant need to control as much as it can. In the integrated state, its not such an issue. Only when you give it all up, can you have it all.

This is very much the sentiment I feel now. For example, in the separate state I would try and control many things. Mainly people around me, and the outcomes of situations in daily life. For example, nowadays I enjoy playing a certain video game on weekends. I can usually only enjoy it on weekends because there’s not many people that play, and weekends are the peak time for the game. However I have a buddy who just rocks up at random, and he likes long intellectual conversations, followed by us going to lunch. Its not a problem, and I don’t seek to control it. Sometimes I can play, sometimes my buddy rocks up. I really don’t mind what happens either way.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

There is only a happening. A constant movement of life. Its constantly unfolding, all the time. I like calling it the tao. An extraordinary intelligence playing with limitless amounts of forms that come and go. At some point, some humans stumble upon the realisation that they are this force, the tao itself. Inseparable from the whole. No longer unwitting characters in the game, but realising they are it. They realise the character they played is pure fiction, and doesn’t exist at all. That leaves them free to enjoy the “natural state” or their “Buddha nature”. This is how I see it.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

More than anything, I’m responsible for this body as long as its on this Earth. It’s impossible now to get truly sucked into the drama, but nonetheless there will be challenges, and there will ebbs and flows in this dance. I don’t have any children, or any dependants of any kind. If I did, my responsibilities would also lie there.
I do have parents however. If there comes a time where they need assistance, I’ll be happy to help. That’s about it, I think. Life just goes on. Chop wood, carry water.

Anything to add?

I don’t think so. I really just want to carry on, and enjoy living as much as I can. It definitely feels odd to put all the above in writing, but kind of good too. I think the biggest thing about this ordeal is that its really not that special. More than anything its ordinary, but in a chill and peaceful way.

Sorry this one was a bit late. I hope you’re well Stacy, and anyone else who reads this. I’m happy to elaborate further on anything if needed.

Peace,

Adam

[Anastacia42]

Hi Adam,

All good, until "responsibility."

More than anything, I’m responsible for this body as long as its on this Earth.

Really? With nothing but a free flow of happening, how is it that you exercise responsibility?

Loving,

[Sapkowski99]

Hi Stacy,

Really? With nothing but a free flow of happening, how is it that you exercise responsibility?

Ahh I think I see now.

Responsibility isn't an issue. Responsibility on my part occurs of its own accord. Its part of the singular unfolding. I think I got too caught up on the word, and its implications. The groceries, work, chores, and all the rest are done without having to think about responsibility. It all works out in the end.

Peace,

Adam

[Anastacia42]

Doesn't that feel truer? Good.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Another guide is asking, "Right now, how do you know a separate self doesn't exist?"

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

And a different guide wants me to ask:

My question is: What do you mean by "feeling the inner body"?
I mean, isn't this some concept Tolle invented?

Thank you for your patience with this process.

[Sapkowski99]

Hi Stacy,

Right now, how do you know a separate self doesn't exist?

The separate self comes about by an identification with thoughts. The difference now being, the thoughts still arise, but they do so as a happening. They're just phenomena, they can't be controlled, and there's nothing there to take ownership of them. They're no different to the sound of my keyboard as I type, nor the fan in background, or the birds chirping outside. There's no separation in this unfolding whatsoever, there can't BE a separate self in that regard.

What do you mean by "feeling the inner body"? I mean, isn't this some concept Tolle invented?

Certainly, this is just something Tolle invented ahaha. I see how saying "feeling the inner body" sort of implies two, the something doing the feeling, and then the inner body that is there too. The true nature, the natural state, has been there all along. Its just now, being it. It's the awareness becoming aware of its own awareness. That's what I mean by feeling the inner body, just BE.

Hope y'all are well, and I'm happy to elaborate further on any of this.

Peace,

Adam

[Anastacia42]

Hi Adam,

They seem happy with your answers. Our conversation here is complete.

Watch your private messages for more information.

Also, here are links to teleconferences & if you'll friend me on Facebook, I can invite you to the Fetter-Free group. I'm Stacy Clark in Colorado.


There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:

Thursday Meetings.

Hi Guys,

we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.

Here is an invitation for you:

Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on youtube.

To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com

You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.

Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
__________________________________________________

Meet up with vince (For LU seekers & guides)

Monday August 14

Sydney (est) Australia. 6 am right now
Every 2 weeks after that.

https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09

Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Let him know if you want email reminders.
vinceschubert@gmail.com

__________________________________________________

Ilona's Meetings

Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )

To register send Ilona an email to

admin@ilonaciunaite.com

Looking forward :)


__________________________________________________

(videos)

Hi everyone.

Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.

https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4

Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate

Ilona

Write to them for the next meeting.Ilona's is April 9th.

For Fetters:

Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks. I can invite you to that group on Facebook where the notices are posted. What is your FB name?

There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.

And Kevin Shinilac has https://www.simplytheseen.com/ but I don't think he is guiding any more, although there are instructions on his site.

And if you'd like to guide, we can always use the help!

Much love,

[Sapkowski99]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you for going through this with me.

I no longer use Facebook, so I probably won't join the group. I don't feel quite ready to guide yet, but I feel at some point I'd like to pay it back :)

Peace and love,

Adam

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome.

Much love,