The veil thinnens - where is the veil? Need of a guide

[Elettaria]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand, it is the gift of reaching out to a hand guiding through (the first) illusion of having a self to begin with. My mind is informed, I read and listened a lot and I had glimpsed, though it won't stick.

What are you looking for at LU?
I find this the most direct way to find the freedom I am looking for since I started my spiritual quest as a teenager. I feel blessed to have found LU. It so fits my path! Currently I am reading the books, constantly pausing to inquire myself. I am done reading any other thing. It's time. I am looking for a guide and inspiration to persistance, if this is taking its time. But for all I know, I could break free any moment. I then hope to find further guidance and/or inspiration to deepen the liberation. I am a teacher personality, so I will probably be active in the process and share what I learned later.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I seek a guide to have my concentration stable and to find/address key clinging of my self-Illusion. When I work with the inquiry with the books I am too quick to think to have found the answer and there is no one sensing when it in fact was a distraction / protection. I am insecure about when, what, how to ask precisely.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I did a lot. I joined the Yoga world when I was teenager (a little over 20 years ago), because there seemed to be the promise of liberation. I followed my instincts to mantra singing, gong meditation - both giving me glimpses. I never followed a guru. I sat in silent meditation, but gave up because it was nice for the psyche but not for liberation (and it was boring). I learned energy exercises from classical tantra, finally my mind had something to concentrate on and it felt good - only there were hardly people waking up in the community, I refused to think I need to speak Sanskrit and do rituals for awakening - it wasn't me. So I kept following the path down the rabbit hole till I found inquiry and boom - I never had more and quick er and clearer experiences. I feel it is both my style (I can do it everywhere anytime) and has the power to go where it is discomforting, but needed. I am professionally used to address psychological issues and are not shying away from uncomfortable issues. But on the spiritual quest this is bigger and I think inquiry is the best tool for me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Hej Stacy,
thank you for your guidance.

I did read both disclaimer and "what this is not". I am fully agreeing.

You can call me Sandra. I am in GMT+1. Evenings are my preferred time of replying and I am all for the pace of replying every day. I am really excited and grateful to be here.

Honestly:

How will life change?

Life won't change a bit. I don't think so.

How will you change?

I think, mostly I hope to be more relaxed and at ease, if I don't "have to" take things so personally anymore. I see myself just experiencing, letting life experience through me. From what I peaked, I will even see more beauty and magic in life, if perceived raw, without judgements, narration. Less fear.

What will be different?

Immediacy. Rawness, pureness will be more experienced. I noticed the constant chatter and ownership-grabbing in my mind becomes more and more dreadful. I see how this is deluding me, keeping me away from the pure experience. I hope that's what it is, because then there is the chance this will go.

What is missing?

Nothing is missing. The opposite. I want to let go of this I, this Self, this illusion. Everything I need is here, nothing is missing. When I came close, I think fear of losing control was coming up. So I would say, trust in the process, love for it, is something I could cultivate, use, to go through.

Thank you.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sandra,

Good. Welcome.

Your expectations are mostly reasonable.

What comes up on reading there is no separate self anywhere & never has been? That it is just a story, only a thought?

Loving,

[Elettaria]

What comes up on reading there is no separate self anywhere & never has been? That it is just a story, only a thought?

From thought perspective, I agree. But on experience level it is odd. When I read this, direct experience delivers me sensations of fluidity, flowing into everything, sensing no border. I just took a stroll through the garden and seeing the tall trees there in the dark was interesting with that question in mind: They didn't seem so solid as they are. In fact, when I looked around and also now look around, the visual sensation feels rather informative, energetic, than solid. There is the urge to grab things to get a more solid feedback.

So I checked what comes up when in company with my cats: I sensed orchestration of life - "I" wasn't really there. Then I checked this while chatting with my husband - it didn't "work". We are quite different, so I am used to set boundaries. I cannot pierce this with the subtle wonder. I will keep trying.

In any case, I need to focus on it. It doesn't stay as a sensation, visceral knowing.

[Anastacia42]

That's great. This should help with that:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Elettaria]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes, this is clear. I familiarized myself with DE, since I practices with myself before.

[Anastacia42]

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you for referring me to the videos.

At first I was hit by it, thinking, huh, it must be informative about what's to come. Then I was, huh, so familiar. Then, no it can't be it. No it really isn't it. So the second video was picking up on exactly that. Haha. But... It made me realise I am expecting more. When Lisa said, at once you feel "I am Source" and then "that can't be"... I cannot say there is feeling of Source. Or is there?

Wow, this makes me question a lot!

I think, I am mostly still looking at life through the lense of "me". Although I can switch / concentrate / go into DE and "me" is gone. This is confusing.
So maybe, I am still owning that "I" thought at times, and disprove it in DE. But why would I grab on to it again? I thought it means not being able to believing it anymore. It is less, yes. But gone? Or, and I think this is more likely, I must have none seen it fully yet.

When Lisa in the second video came up with the image of the dark room, where the light was switched on, the immediate thought which came up for me was: I must be in a room with a dimmer and it hasn't been fully lit.

You probably know the exercise of standing up, walking through the room, turning around, sitting down again. And then ask, why did you turn around left or right, who decided. This was a hit on my core belief that there was a decider. I laughed so long! A few days later, the belief kinda came back to me. I then read about inquiry to the decider (Finding Awakening) and it really helped. I laughed again and I don't believe there is a decider anymore (that was about two, three weeks ago).

Where can I pick up from that? I don't really know where to look.

According to the videos, I would say, identify core beliefs and investigate whether they are true. I tried that for a few hours, on and off. Any example I could find was dissolving into ashes when I was about to pick it up. Maybe I am avoiding to see the real ones?

Grateful,
Sandra

[Elettaria]

Okay, just found a core belief. And looking for: "Can I die?" This seems to do more... Will get back to you.

[Anastacia42]

Hi

Let me do the guiding?

I thought it means not being able to believing it anymore. It is less, yes. But gone

So, first, sure you can try to believe in a "self" again even when you've fully seen. Why? Who knows? We'll never know.

Second, please distinguish between "relative" & "absolute" reality. Or, as one of my teachers said, there is no one to die, but if you step out in front of the bus you'll die. It's a paradox. You get used to living in paradox.

Here is your first pointer. Reply only with DE.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Hej Stacy,

I took up on this exercise, but don't find time to write it down today. Mondays. I'll write tomorrow and will use the extra day for more DE.

Thanks,
Sandra

[Anastacia42]

Yes, a friend of mine sent me a note saying that, "Today is not even trying to disguise the fact that it is a Monday."

I laughed. Same here.

Loving,

[Elettaria]

Not the easiest of exercises... to put into words

Seeing a plant, round, pointy, rows of white and green, parts dark green, parts white (shiny), space filled
Smelling plant, [I do not find words for the directs experience of smell, they are all interpretations] [earthy, deep, woody]
Feeling the smoothness, shinyness of the plant, cold, sharp, dense
Tasting the plant, [did not do, toxic in this case]
Hearing finger against the plastic pot, short, flat, round, damp
Thought about watering the plant, wishing to grown and thrive

Taking a shower, white and grey vertical stripes [curtain with shades], thousands of quick white points, grey points, never the same image
Smelling water, metallic, sweet
Feeling the water on the skin, on and off, warm, hot, density feeling that varies quickly
Tasting the water, neutral
Hearing the water hitting the bathtub, medium loud, surrounding, low, staccato, rhythmic, sound followed by deeper and lower sounds in row
Thought about showering, relaxing, breathtaking when steam breathed, I feel isolated, content, finally, long day, ahhh

Seeing a book, rectangle with dark colors and white lines, second space of yellow in lighter and darker shades
Smelling book, [sweet, vanilla, woody]
Feeling the book pages when book closed, movement slowed down, rough, smooth, warm, dense
Tasting the book, [nope]
Hearing the finger against the book pages to feel it, staccato, broad, expanding, full, with high pitch
Thought about looking at book, found it in the garbage area, people throw away books, once quoted from the book on social media without having read it before, famous book, precious, lucky to have found it, thankful

Seeing a tissue box, dark rectangle and two light brown rectangles, with varied green and pink lines and rounded shapes, white and grey shape raised on top
Smelling tissue box, neutral
Feeling the tissue on top, thin, rough, flexible
Tasting the book, [nope, tried as a kid, that's enough]
Hearing the tissue being pulled out of the box, medium high, contained in an area, getting louder, quick stop, present silence afterwards
Thought about pulling the tissue, irritating, like scratching nails at a board, why is that?, wanting to analyse, no need for a tissue now

Something like that?

[Anastacia42]

Yes and no.

Please look at the example. You will find the brief description of the Direct Experience followed by "simply equals" and the name of the DE that is involved.

Could you please rewrite this in that format? That is why it says "EXACTLY."

The reason for this is to emphasize that we are accustomed to seeing things in these complex made-up descriptions (which don't matter one bit and are not DE), but, in fact, all that is actually happening is Seeing, Hearing, Feeling, Smelling, Tasting and Thought Arising (with meaningless content).

So, please rewrite it or do it again, if you prefer.

Much love,