The Gate

Let's talk.

Bump. Waiting. Ready...
Step in.

Ok, im in. Lets do this.

Ive been on ruthless truth nexus on facebook and had a thread there but lets start fresh. ok?

Hey Micro.

So where is the stuck? Where are you in that process of seeing that there is no personal self?

Also what expectations from this thing, called "liberation", you have at moment?

Hi

Ok, I have the intellectual bit nailed down. I see thought´s appear from stimulus from envoirment. I also see that me is also a thought. But it for me at least points to the body and likes and disslikes of the persona. Even if those like/disslikes are not choosen. But it just doesn´t make sense to me to say I dont exist becuse that would mean no experience, nothing at all.

Ive read people say things like they lose motivation after seeing and other attributes aswell seem to wanish for them.
Well im like that already... Not in a negative way i can ad, i still work and have an orginzed life but i dont fight for it.

My expectation is to have a real aha moment of seeing becuse ive always been a seeker. Well and to feel good or better. To be honest to feel better and be totaly realaxed in every sitiuation is the thing im hoping for.

But it just doesn´t make sense to me to say I dont exist becuse that would mean no experience, nothing at all.

Yes, that is a common idea, that without belief in self there will be no experiences.
Experiences are and will be even after realising that there is no experiencer.
Look at your hand, look at thought, at emotion that comes. All those are experiences. But no entity, no experiencer behind. I'm not trying to convince you. Don't take it as a belief. Look for yourself. Observe all experiences that come and go. What is behind? Who is observer?

Ive read people say things like they lose motivation after seeing and other attributes aswell seem to wanish for them.
Well im like that already... Not in a negative way i can ad, i still work and have an orginzed life but i dont fight for it.

That is a work of that idea you already told above: no experiences without self. You have that idea in you. Look at it. Isn't it like a mood, or a distinct feeling? If you can perceive that mood in you, it is an object, not permanent, not you. Right? Be aware of it till it gone. Then don't worry - be happy.

My expectation is to have a real aha moment of seeing becuse ive always been a seeker. Well and to feel good or better. To be honest to feel better and be totaly realaxed in every sitiuation is the thing im hoping for.

That aha can be very subtle at times. Just some kind of relief, like end of seeking, end of tension. You don't need to seek, all seeking is mental, will not guide you anywhere. Seeking brought you here. Now just stop and look at things what they are in real. Looking is not seeking. Looking is experiencing.
And after seeking ends, naturally you will feel better and relaxed. Shit can happen even after, but why to worry if there is no "I"? Even anxiety, fear happens after realisation, but there is always peace, freedom behind that...

So what is behind all experiences?

Don't rush to answer, take your time. Observe.

God morning.

I dont know how to quote parts so il do it the old fasioned way.


"Yes, that is a common idea, that without belief in self there will be no experiences.
Experiences are and will be even after realising that there is no experiencer.
Look at your hand, look at thought, at emotion that comes. All those are experiences. But no entity, no experiencer behind. I'm not trying to convince you. Don't take it as a belief. Look for yourself. Observe all experiences that come and go. What is behind? Who is observer?"

Hmm i dont see this. You say no entity but the body is the entity. It creates emotions al on autopilot ofcourse but still the body is the cause of it all.

"That is a work of that idea you already told above: no experiences without self. You have that idea in you. Look at it. Isn't it like a mood, or a distinct feeling? If you can perceive that mood in you, it is an object, not permanent, not you. Right? Be aware of it till it gone. Then don't worry - be happy."

Im not worried, but im not sure if objects like feeling go away if i am aware of the.

"That aha can be very subtle at times. Just some kind of relief, like end of seeking, end of tension. You don't need to seek, all seeking is mental, will not guide you anywhere. Seeking brought you here. Now just stop and look at things what they are in real. Looking is not seeking. Looking is experiencing.
And after seeking ends, naturally you will feel better and relaxed. Shit can happen even after, but why to worry if there is no "I"? Even anxiety, fear happens after realisation, but there is always peace, freedom behind that...

So what is behind all experiences?"

The body is behind the experience. And the looking is done by me, how can one say look and see ur not there. Ofcourse the observer cant be observed.

When replying, beneath your message, there is a message you are replaying. Place cursor in your message, where you want to put a quote, mark part, you want quote in quotable message and press colourful "Quote" button in that same message.

Lets make it clear. New pointer for you.

There should be always be like this:

Perciever->percieving->percieved. Right?

Percieved, or objects of percieving: table, keyboard, hand, body, vibration in the body, thought, mood, emotion, feeling, senses. That is not you. Observe all that.

Perceiving, or awareness, consciousness, attention of all objects mentioned above. That is not you. Look at your perceiving. Raise both hands, look at one, but keep your awareness on another. So you can perceive even your perceiving, right?

Perciever - can you find that one? Don't think, but try to turn your attention to that entity which SHOULD be there as a perceiver. Can you see that there is no perceiver?

Check all that. Is that true?

but im not sure if objects like feeling go away if i am aware of the

There is a problem in our work here. That is not about being sure. Try for yourself, try hard.
Invite any feeling, any emotion you feel now, closer and just BE with it. Don't fight, don't try to push it away, just welcome and be. Look what happens after.

The body is behind the experience

Body is experience itself. And only that. Check it with schema I mentioned above.

And the looking is done by me, how can one say look and see ur not there. Ofcourse the observer cant be observed.

Yes. That is a barrier which keeping you from entering the gate. There is a belief, that for looking to be there must be someone who look. But since you cannot see him, you are holding on idea that someone, who cannot be observed is behind.

You know that cliché about Santa, which exist only as belief?

Santa cannot be observed, because he don't exist. Observer cant be observed, because he don't exist. Observing is, object of observing is, but no observer. Check it. Don't use believes, or ideas. Just pure experience.

Look carefully at every question here. Don't jump. Just be brutally honest with yourself.
What comes out of all this?

I did the hand thing but what do you mean see my perceiving?

I cant find the one, but I feel stuck still. My mind just says off course not cuz if the body wasn't here then there would be no experience. Its just a thought I know but I cant break through :(

What comes out of all ur questions is just a feeling of stuckness and mind going in circles.

Let me add that I do observe my mind quite often and see many times how things just pop up. Like in conversations if relaxed all is spontanius, I say something funny almost the same instant as the thought arises. Then i look back and wonder how it could just pop that fast, when i didn´t even try to say something.

And I don´t listen to my thoughts about other people or follow any trends just becuse it the thing to do. I mean i feel kind of liberated from mind in the most intense way. But I still dont see that I dont exist.

I dont know why i write this but maybe it could help u know where am at and ask more direct questions.

But I still dont see that I dont exist

It is just thought, do you realise that? What is behind that thought? Can you even control this one?
For example even after liberation from that belief of self I see, that there is no possibility to control thoughts. If doubts arise, they just are till vanishes itself. I don't care. Look if it is true in your case too.
Liberation is not from thoughts, mood, feeling, pain. Liberation is a freedom to all just come and go without suffering.

Micro, don't give up. Bring it in here.