There is nothing

[CrystalBeach]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self is the conditioning, when I look for what I would say is me - I can't find anything.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for a group or community. I currently do not have a circle or community of people who seek liberation or who are liberated. I would like to hear others experience and share my experiences.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like a guide to be very straight forward with me. Point me to the way and call me on my stuff or point to the places I'm caught. I would also like recommended tools or practices. It would be nice if we could laugh together :)

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I started out with Yoga and meditation practice and then attended silent retreats with Adyashanti. I've had a meditation practice on and off. I've attended Byron Katie workshops and Landmark. I feel now that silence and solitude - not workshops is more helpful. I watch a lot of youtube videos, but would like to see pointings from a guide.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Dion]

Hello.
My name is Dion.
Are you still waiting for a guide?
I'm available, if you like.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion, yes I am still waiting for a guide, How do we proceed?

[Dion]

First reply to new seeker.

Hello CrystalBeach.
Thank you for your response.
My name is Dion, and if you like I’ll be your guide.

Before anything else, please read the disclaimer.
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also, please read, “Liberation Unleashed is not”...”
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Below, listed A to D, I have some guidelines that I would like you to follow.
If they don’t suit you, that’s totally fine. There is no compulsion for you to settle with me.
There are a number of other guides who will make themselves available in time.

A- I ask you for total committent to this process, so please post every day. Sometimes life happens though. So, if for some reason it might be impossible, please try to let me know in advance. I’ll do the same for you.

B- Please put aside everything you’ve read, heard or seen regarding Liberation or this process of direct looking. Put aside philosophies, spiritual media, (books, audio, videos, etc.) Information and ideas will not assist you. More than likely they will be a hindrance and obfuscate direct perception. If you have a meditation practice, you may continue it if you like.

C- We will be devoting ourselves to direct experience (DE), not to speculation, rationalisation, stories or abstractions. Direct experience means what can be perceived directly, here and now via the senses.

D- 100% Honesty is vital in this endeavour. There are no tests to pass and no-one to impress. Honesty and humility are essential for us to progress.

E- I recommend that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. It will save you time in the long run, if a glitch in the system wipes out your answer.

If these criteria suit you, and you’d like to proceed, please answer the questions below to add further clarification to what you wrote above.

1 -What is missing now?

2- How will life change?

3- How will I change?

4- What will be different?

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.
Here is a video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Please call me Dion. What would you like me to call you?
I live in Japan. What’s your time zone?

Bye for now,
Dion :)

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

I have read the disclaimer and what UL is not.

I agree to follow the guidelines listed in A-D.

1 -What is missing now?

I don't know if anything is missing, but I have been seeking for years. It feels like a funny thing to say - nothing is missing but here I am seeking.

2- How will life change?

I think my day to day life will go on unfolding much the same.

3- How will I change?

I have an idea that this really conditioned reactive personality will not be so reactive. I understand the concept of no self, but I don't feel it. I can look and not locate myself but I continue to be caught in the storyline. I think the change will be not identifying with the story of my identity and that can relieve suffering.

4- What will be different?

I will not be identified with the story of me, but I will really see (not just have a concept) but really feel the sense that I don't exist.

You can call me Jana
I am in the Central Time zone in Texas.

Thank you
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Welcome. Great to have you onboard.

Seems you're 15 hours behind me here in Japan.
I'm not sure how we'll coordinate daily correspondences, but let's try!
3 questions today...

1- What is your general everyday experience, physically, emotionally and psychologically?

I continue to be caught in the storyline

2- Who/What/Where is the "I" that gets caught in the storyline?
3- Can you describe the process of "getting caught"?

Please sit quietly and examine your experience very closely.
And please be very, very precise with your language.

Thanks Jana!
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion

Thank you for being willing to give it a go with our timezone "constraint" . I watched your interview on the UL youtube, so I got a little sense of "you" :)

1- What is your general everyday experience, physically, emotionally and psychologically?

My general everyday experience is “OK”. Physically, I’m in my mid 50’s and very physically healthy my body is not in pain or disease. Sometimes walking on the beach I experience being one with the sound of the waves, it feels quite blissful. Other times I notice waves of panic or anxiety in the body on a lot of days for what seems like no apparent reason. A contraction or burning in the chest and waves of feeling kind of sick in the gut. When noticing this, I just try to breath and relax until it goes away.
Emotionally and psychologically I keep seeking and looking for something, something that’s missing but is not missing. I have experienced this life where it seems like anything externally almost that I want I get – then I see oops that’s not it either. Now I’m just emotionally tired of looking for something outside. I have shifted my seeking from looking for a thing, a job, money to looking for, relationship, community or enlightenment will be thing that makes it whole or results in the feeling of something not missing.


I continue to be caught in the storyline

2- Who/What/Where is the "I" that gets caught in the storyline?

When looking at this there is a feeling of contraction in the chest and I’m on the verge of bursting into tears but I don’t. I don’t feel like I’m stopping the tears they just don’t come. I don’t know where or who the “I” is, I don’t know how to answer, it’s just a feeling of like a stopping but with a mild amount of anxiety. I can't locate the "I" in my experience.

3- Can you describe the process of "getting caught"?

The process of getting caught seems to be in two different ways.
One way is I feel this burning or contraction in the chest ( I think this is how people describe anxiety) and it just seems to appear for no reason. Like I’m just sitting down to untie my shoes, something mundane. Then a storyline may start – for example, “I’m lonely, I’ll never have a relationship”, “I’m in a gilded cage” “ I sacrificed relationships for career and money, to include the way I raised my son”( I focused a lot on working in my life and was able to retire early, comfortably).

The second way of getting caught feels like an external thing happened that hit my trigger. For example: I currently travel and live in my motorhome full-time. I rented a particular spot months in advance, I drove up to the spot and it was taken. Oh the anger and sense of being wronged! That’s MINE! Then more thoughts and story of – if you don’t watch closely, people will take what’s yours, or I never get what I want (which is completely ridiculous since I clearly said earlier I have experienced a life of seeming to get anything I want). And I can see that this idea of wanting or desire or pushing away is a brain activity that is just occurring.

Thank you
Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)

Thank you so much for your honesty and clarity ;)

I'll number the points I'd like you to focus on and answer, below.

I notice waves of panic or anxiety in the body on a lot of days for what seems like no apparent reason. A contraction or burning in the chest and waves of feeling kind of sick in the gut.

1- Are you responsible for these feelings? Do you create, maintain or destroy them? Do you control them? Can you claim them as "mine"? Please describe.

As a side-note, I think it's well worth sitting with this feeling and making yourself well acquainted with it.
Sit with your eyes closed and little by little, scan your body, being conscious of every sensation and movement. How does it move? What does it feel like? Is it hot, cold, warm, flowing, agitated, clutching, swelling, and so on. Is it static? Does it move from one place to another?
Also be aware of the thoughts and emotions that arise while this is happening.
Rather than trying to breathe it away, relax, allow it to be, and become extremely acquainted with it.

I just try to breath and relax until it goes away.

You said you can't locate the "I" in experience. So let's be really precise with language.
2- Can you describe the experience again, without using the "I" pronoun? What it is it that needs the experience to go away?
If you can't find the "I" in experience, then you're working on the assumption of its existence.



Now, a looking exercise.

3- Sit with your eyes closed, with an attitude of negligence of will to act. If action arises, fine. If it doesn't, fine. But your resolution is to not actively initiate action. Does everything stop? What happens? Describe what happens without your acquiescence.

my trigger

4- Do these trigger responses come unbidden?



So to recap, your questions are;

1- Are you responsible for these feelings? Do you create, maintain or destroy them? Do you control them? Can you claim them as "mine"? Please describe.

2- Can you describe the experience again, without using the "I" pronoun? What it is it that needs the experience to go away?

3- Sit with your eyes closed, with an attitude of negligence of will to act. If action arises, fine. If it doesn't, fine. But your resolution is to not actively initiate action. Does everything stop? What happens? Describe what happens (including thought, sensation, emotion) without your acquiescence.

4- Do these trigger responses come unbidden?

Thanks, Jana.:)

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,
Thank you again for the pointings.

1-Are you responsible for these feelings? Do you create, maintain or destroy them? Do you control them? Can you claim them as "mine"? Please describe.

They seem to just appear and I don’t see that the appearance is controlled in any way. In looking at maintaining or destroying, that just seems to happen as well. Whew – that feels light and just in general less dense and heavy.

2- Can you describe the experience again, without using the "I" pronoun? What it is it that needs the experience to go away?

In sitting with the burning sensation in the chest, it feels tingly and tight. When scanning it seems to then move and moves to the face near the eyes, then disappears.

What is it that needs the experience to go away?

There is resistance and stickiness to answering that nothing can be found that needs it to go away. “jana” the conditioned personality doesn’t like it… is all that can be said.

3- Sit with your eyes closed, with an attitude of negligence of will to act. If action arises, fine. If it doesn't, fine. But your resolution is to not actively initiate action. Does everything stop? What happens? Describe what happens (including thought, sensation, emotion) without your acquiescence.

Thoughts occurred – is this the same as meditation? Is this right?
Sensation – Toes tingling and tightness around left shoulder blade, shoulder rises and falls
Emotion – neutral/relaxed
Thoughts, sensations and emotions still happened. A sense of hunger arose and the action to type notes and prepare food.

4- Do these trigger responses come unbidden? The responses to a “trigger” just come uninvited.

Everything just comes and goes. That answer seems too simple 😊

I am traveling tomorrow, I'm a little unsure of the internet and cell service at my destination, I may be a little delayed in answering.
Thank you again for your time in reading my posts and providing this guidance.
Jana

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

I made it to my destination and I do have wifi, so I will be able to continue posting.
Thank you

jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana.

Sorry about my late response. I was unwell, and unable to respond.
Thanks for your response.

1- What is Jana?

2- Where is Jana?

In your first introductory mail, you said, "the self is conditioning". And then in your last message you said, "jana, the conditioned personality"..

3- What do you mean by this?

Thanks Jana :)

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

I hope you are feeling better.

1- What is Jana?

Hmm not much comes up for this other than a label. There are a lot of thoughts about it, a baby was born, parents smacked a label on it and experiences started.

2- Where is Jana?

Is this different than where is the self? I don't see anything other than, there is a body and a collection of organs with the name Jana. When thinking where is Jana it feels like a tightening in my chest.

In your first introductory mail, you said, "the self is conditioning". And then in your last message you said, "jana, the conditioned personality"..

3- What do you mean by this?

It seems like experiences happen, your parents tell you, society tells you - you are Jana and this is the expecation of you. Behave and dress a certain way because of your gender, go to school, get a job, follow society norms.

Thank you again - hope you are feeling better
jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana.
Would you like to do a video meeting?
I can fish around by email for a while, but I feel like it would be good to chat it out in person, on Skype.
What do you think?
Dion

[CrystalBeach]

Hi Dion,

Yes I think a video chat would be perfect. I will be traveling back home tomorrow, so I'll be on the road for much of the day.

I'm not working right now so my schedule is pretty flexible.
Looking forward to meeting you !

Jana

[Dion]

Hi Jana :)
I'm feeling better now, thank you.

How are you doing?
Everything ok?

Let's do the Skype meeting soon.
For the time being;

a baby was born, parents smacked a label on it and experiences started.

Experiences started for who/what?

Bye for now,
Dion