Clarifying insights

[Bogdan5]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
“I” is just a thought, that felt true, because in early childhood conclusion (which was just a thought as well) was made that there had to be experiencer of experience. The conclusion was taken for granted and many years seemed a real deal. I can’t find “I” in direct experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to clarify my insights. Seems I’ve already seen through the illusion of the self, but I hadn’t had very vivid experience of breaking this illusion . The process of clarifying has been very gradual. So there are doubts about missing of examining of some facets of the illusion

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect kind of “evaluation” of clarity of my insight through questions and pointers. I’ve never had an opportunity to have a conversation about this stuff. I feel the importance of having it and really looking forward to start

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Different meditation practices, different self-inquiry practices, reading many books and watching YouTube videos of authors - Angelo Dilulo, Spira, Peter Ralston, Dawid Hawkins, Lisa Carins, Frank Yang etc

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like. I can help you confirm your seeing or clarify it.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Bogdan5]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for ability of being my guide. I'm very grateful for possibility.
Sorry for the late reply, I've just seen your message.

I can post every day.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

I read both disclaimer and FAQ

How will life change?

Life will not change.

How will you change?

Something (if anything) that was missed will be clear.

What will be different?

Perception of reality will be different, because of seeing of what really is instead of living in the illusory world created by mind. There will be less suffering. I already can relate to this, because suffering already decreased radically.

What is missing?

I explored this on my own and I really want to clarify my insights with you

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

You can call me Bogdan. Now I am in GMT+5:30, at the end of March will move to GMT+3:00

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome, Bogdan.

Your expectations are mostly reasonable.

What comes up on reading there is no separate self anywhere & never has been? That it is just a story, only a thought?

Loving,

[Bogdan5]

What comes up on reading there is no separate self anywhere & never has been? That it is just a story, only a thought?

In direct experience everything is happening by itself, I can't find a real separate entity called me or self. Self is just a thought, which is assuming that there have to be experiencer of experience, because there have to be a hearer to hear, a seer to see, a thinker to think, a doer to do etc. There has never been a separate self, self always was only an assumption, which was deconstructed by contemplation of what is in direct experience.

[Anastacia42]

Good.

It sounds like we can skip directly to "final" questions. Give these a try & I can guide you on anything that's unclear.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving,

[Bogdan5]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is not a separate entity, which lives a life, does actions, makes decisions, controls and manages everything anywhere. There has never been such an entity, it's very obvious and 100% clear. But there are kind of psychological conditionings which consist from thoughts, sensations, behavioural patterns connected to each others. These thoughts, sensations, actions just happens by itself, but there is a value to investigate these conditionings, as they can be connected to traumas, repressed emotions and deep rooted beliefs. As example my mother in my childhood always hated my girlfriends so I got used to avoid any discussions about my personal relationships and lie that there was nothing to say. So it was built as kind of behavioural pattern (avoidance) which happened every time when my mother tried to bring my intimate relationships theme up. After seeing through the illusion of separate self this pattern continued happening, but I started to feel that there is something to investigate. Strong avoidance of discussing my relationships with mother started to feel very inauthentic. After doing kind of emotional work the pattern changed. Now I don't hide my parter's existence from my mom in any ways. So trying to conclude, there is no kind of "gross" separate self, me, I, life manager, entity in the head called Bogdan which controls everything, make decisions, has own thoughts, emotions etc, but there are still conditionings or behavioural patterns, or habits to directly work with. They seem like deeper layers of identity or 'me'.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It seems the illusion of separate self started from my early childhood. Seems one of the reasons of creating and believing the illusion is language and generally the way of people interacting. We almost always point to 'I', 'me' and 'others'. Most of my thoughts are in language as well (except images). So I was taught (directly and indirectly) that I am. Parent's used words you, your, to point somewhere but I was never explained to what they pointed. I think they didn't really know, because existence of I deeply rooted in the language structure and in the social conditionings. Existence of I seems too obvious to try to figure out what it really is. So thoughts 'I exist', 'I go', 'I think' etc arose as a reaction to the 'you', 'your' pointers, and realness of such thoughts was reinforced and approved in many many social interactions and 'I' got more complex every time. It pretty rapidly got so obvious that there was real separate entity 'self'. The more solid and complex 'self' became, the more it had to defend and improve itself. So life became ongoing project of self-validation, self-defence and self-improvement. Self was always in control of life and it felt good and right until a situation it wasn't in control of life and it felt so awful (huge need to improve self with extremely self-hatred arose).

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Our dialogue has been very short, so I will describe how seeing through the illusion of separate self feels in general. Life feels much more effortless and intimate than before. I don't need to spent energy on the self-project (mentioned in previous questions) Huge amount of thoughts about me (how I need to act to get validation, what people think about me etc generally about maintaining self-image) and others (judging, comparing to myself etc) decreased radically. I don't manipulate people to get something from. There much more honesty with others and with myself (which show reactivity patterns from question number 1). There are not any thoughts about any "'wrong decisions" and "failures" from the past. (I could think about them for hours). I still use to-do list when it's needed and creates plans for near future, but it's completely ok when life is not follow my plan :). I trust life, trust what is happening.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Can't get this question, could you explain?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision is a thought reflection on action that happened.This thought marks happened as a 'decision' because it was something different from usual way of happening. Decision is usually seems important as well. Example - I just scratched my leg (doesn't mark as decision). I left my country 6 months ago (a huge decision).

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention is an energetic urge (can be with a thought or without) toward something. Example - I'm answering this questions right now, because of this urge.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

I can't give an example of free will really. Seems there is not free will of any kind.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice is a thought about a situation where I seemingly (but not really) can express free will. Often choice thought follows by doubt (many thoughts reflecting each other). Examples - I'm making an order in a restaurant; I was offered a new job.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is a thought arose when something happened according to expectations (or in very common habitual way). Examples - I went to the grocery store and returned back to home (thought - I was in control)
I went to the grocery store and someone beat me up and stole my money (thought - I wasn't in control)

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things happen by itself. It works as constant interactions between everything.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Seems I can't get this question. Now I am not responsible for anything, but when I worked in the company, I defiantly was responsible for many things..

6) Anything to add?

I'm not a native English speaker, sorry for mistakes, I did my best :)

[Anastacia42]

You did fine.

#4 is asking what happened that took you from thinking that there was a separate self to seeing clearly that there is no such thing?

On #5 do you make decisions? Or do they just arise?

Same question for "intention.[/color]

Once you answer these, I will share them with other guides who may have questions.

Loving,

[Bogdan5]

#4 is asking what happened that took you from thinking that there was a separate self to seeing clearly that there is no such thing?

Honestly I don't know exactly and don't remember. It's been a gradual process with many small insights.

On #5 do you make decisions? Or do they just arise?

No, of course not, everything is just happening, "I made a decision" is just a thought.

Same question for "intention.[/color]

No, intention comes and goes on its own.

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Another guide is asking for clarification on this:

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
Seems I can't get this question. Now I am not responsible for anything, but when I worked in the company, I defiantly was responsible for many things..

What "you" was there ever to be responsible for anything?

Loving,

[Bogdan5]

What "you" was there ever to be responsible for anything?

I meant my job duties. I as an employee was responsible for developing business on aligned territories - recruiting new partners, building pipeline etc.
There have never been a separate entity me responsible for anything in an absolute sense. But in a relative sense I was responsible for many things.

[Anastacia42]

There have never been a separate entity me responsible for anything in an absolute sense. But in a relative sense I was responsible for many things.

Yes. We're asking about the absolute sense here. Focus on that.

Thank you,

[Bogdan5]

Yes. We're asking about the absolute sense here. Focus on that.

Yes, I completely understood it, but anyway I mentioned responsibility in a relative sense. I've been contemplating this part and it feels very sticky. I mean I see there is no self, I can't find it anywhere in direct experience, but relating to responsibilities, precisely about making living = survival, I see fear arising with thoughts like "I still need a control not to be poor", " there is no me but exclusively for survival I need 'me exist' option available". So I can say there is definitely no 100% clarity. Could you guide me through?

[Anastacia42]

For fear I suggest these:

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE


Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

[Bogdan5]

Hi Stacy,
To keep you posted. I am investigating responsibility, and not ready to reply today. Hope I will do it tomorrow.