I really want to be done searching

[Quanyu]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I think this means that our perceived identity is a mental construct we build over time in this life, while our true identity is something that cannot be put into words.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'd like to gain this realization of no-self or "real self" or whatever one may call it. I've temporarily had this insight once or twice in life under the influence of substances, but never something permanent.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'd like to have an exchange with someone that can help me see where I'm getting lots so I can finally see for myself what this is all about. I'm very much in my head and easily get caught up in thought loops and have all kinds of questions come up. I find it difficult to go beyond that, so hopefully some targeted questioning can help with that.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've done a lot of reading and watching videos and listening to talks. I've done some meditation and have had psychedelic experiences that made me interested in all this to begin with. I don't have any regular practice apart from usually throughout the day trying to inquire into what I am.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like. I did some substances years ago, but haven't needed them in decades. Much better without side effects and such. Not to mention this is legal.

Seeing can also come & go as we adjust to what is true. Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4


One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Quanyu]

Hi Stacy,

Thanks a lot for doing this. My apologies for the delay in the first message. From now on I'm able to write daily. You can call me Quanyu. I'm skeptical in the sense that I don't readily accept things based on someone else's authority. I don't have any doubt that this awakening process is real and something I want to pursue. I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for or whether based on my skepticism towards authority a different guide would be better. What do you think?

I'm on central time, by the way.

To your main questions:

How will life change?

My expectation is that I would be able to leave all resistance towards life behind. That my mind would stop being in charge and that I would live out of my true nature, unencumbered by fear and overly intellectualized concepts.

How will you change?

I expect that I would be expressing myself more freely, without too much thought. That I would use thought when needed, but often times just being in the moment. I'm prone to overthinking and worrying too much, with strong bouts of nostalgia. I'd expect that to pass over time. And somehow I wouldn't exist anymore or realize that I never did exist, although I'm not sure who would be realizing that.

What will be different?

In a way I think not much will be different. I'll probably still live my life relatively similarly. But on the other hand my perspective would be radically different in that my identification would shift away from my mind and body towards the entire universe. How that would express itself, I don't know.

What is missing?

I can intellectually see that I'm not the mind or the body. But I cannot identify with anything else. I'm just here, noticing that I've still got similar thought patterns as always. I'm still seeking to find that ultimate truth of what I am. I have this urge towards ultimate perfection without knowing what that really is.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning, Quanyu,

Thanks for answering.

The fact is that our minds & our thinking are totally useless for this process. We want to question the existence of any "self," but if a person is forever relying on thoughts & logic the experience of just LOOKING & SEEING will elude them.

I'm still seeking to find that ultimate truth of what I am

.

There is no self of any kind. This will be SEEN with your eyes with your 5 senses, but not through any thinking.

I have this urge towards ultimate perfection without knowing what that really is.

There is no "ultimate perfection." That expectation is a fantasy & will only get in your way. Some of your other ideas are fairly reasonable.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Now, what comes up when is read there's no separate self, never has been and never will be? That it is all just a made up story?

Loving,

[Quanyu]

Now, what comes up when is read there's no separate self, never has been and never will be? That it is all just a made up story?

There's a feeling of "that's true", but also a lot of confusion. There's the story with various levels of deep drama that feels like it affects me. But when I look for me I can't be found. But then I don't know what it even means to look if there's nobody looking. It feels like someone is looking this whole time. There's a feeling of being that seems to be there no matter what is going on all the way since I can remember. Part of the confusion is that if it's all made up, it is still being perceived somehow. Isn't there a story teller or a listener?

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Part of the confusion is that if it's all made up, it is still being perceived somehow. Isn't there a story teller or a listener?

Your confusion is understandable.

The answer is that there's no noun, "me." There's more of a verb, and it's not personal. We sometimes say, "life life-ing." This will not make nearly as much sense to the logical, verbal mind, as it will when actually SEEN.

So hang in there, do the pointers & watch what comes up.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Quanyu]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Thank you. This is all very clear so far.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Then here is your first pointer:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Quanyu]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Seeing my phone, simply = image/color
Holding the phone, simply = sensation
Listening to people talk on TV, simply = sound
Moving/switching my glasses, simply = image/color
Hearing my coughing, simply = sound
Feeling my coughing, simply = sensation

Seeing a car, simply = image/color
Breathing in the car, simply = smell
Hearing the noise of driving, simply = sound

Holding a potato, simply = sensation
Peeling the potato, simply = sound

Sitting down, simply = sensation
Hearing the wind, simply = sound

Listening to music, simply = sensation
Listening to music, simply = sound

[Anastacia42]

Good. These are right.

I don't see any about thoughts arising.

One of the most important things you have to learn in order to see is to distinguish the DE fact that a thought arises from the content of that thought which is not Direct Experience.

Please give a few examples of that.

Much love,

[Quanyu]

Thoughts are arising constantly.

Thought about replying, simply = thought
Thought about what to eat, simply = thought
Thought about what to do next, simply = thought
Thought about what next to write, simply = thought
Thought about what it is that I'm smelling, simply = thought
Thought about how I'm feeling, simply = thought

[Anastacia42]

Yes, thank you.

Let's take this a little further:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[Quanyu]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second version seems a bit closer to what's happening. The "I" statements are useful when talking to someone, but add an extra layer of abstraction.

2. What is here without labels?

Just the sensations and thoughts.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

For me they're just a description

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Maybe I was a bit more relaxed in the second round, but I'm not sure there was much of a difference.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, yes, sometimes the difference may be subtle. Keep looking closely, relaxing, feeling. A relaxed feeling indicates a truth.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[Quanyu]

Thanks for that explanation. That's really interesting. Thinking of a time when I betrayed someone's trust I feel a strong contraction in my throat and a more subtle one in my chest.