I went through the 1st step of 7-Steps, now there's unexpected anger...

[alexmed]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
At the moment, "no real self" means that my feelings, sensations and thoughts are not really "me". I had a "shift" of perception for some time, when was listening the audio version of Gateless Gatecrashers, it was an eye-opener for me. But now in most cases I "forget" about that and have to "remember" it constantly.

What are you looking for at LU?
To find a guide, who could help me to walk through the Gates using the 7-Steps of the Liberation Unleashed book or any other way, as seems I'm stuck just after the 1st step, and need some advice, as not sure what's with me right now.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
First of all -- thank you so much for what you're doing!

A week ago I read the Gateless Gatecrashers stories and had a shift of the perception for some time, when it was a shock for me that all these associated feelings and sensations are not me. I felt sadness and grief after this opening, but that was fine, it was not tough or long-lasting negative effect.

Yesterday evening, just after work, I thoroughly went through the 1st step of 7-Steps of LU book ("Meeting the Fear"). I met this fear -- it was in the entire body, especially in the head and heart. It was even surrounding the body, all embracing and rough. Like a big "black glow" of something negative. I acknowledged and it appreciated it, and it got calmer -- just like a hot red coal got a bit colder and blacker, but it didn't go completely.
So I decided to go for a walk, and during the walk the fear gradually dissolved, and just after that, suddenly a big shift happened, I understood what does the "ego" do for me -- and I started to laugh! I walked and laughed (thanks God it was a late evening, ~9.30pm) -- it became so clear to me back then. I saw that it's working for me as a "Collector" of everything that's is worth to be collected, carefully gathered and stored in the safe place called "me" or my memory -- whatever. I saw that it's a thorough "worker", which does all the practical things for my life as a concept, which collects the things together, it's a very pragmatic "caretaker" -- and I became so grateful to it for its great job! I felt that seems it gradually grew starting from the early childhood till today, growing it abilities and proficiency, I made it even more and more powerful in what it's "created" to be for, this mental "arm" which is designed to seek, grab, achieve, etc... But seems it's a very bad habit to use it everywhere, for any circumstance. It's just an instrument. We don't use a hammer to collect roses or apples.

At least that's how I saw it.

When I came home it was rather late, around 11pm and during the conversation with my wife I noticed that I'm angry for no reason. I rapidly stopped it and went to sleep, hoping that this would go.

But today, after I unconsciously started to spoil the family morning with my bad mood, I realised that I'm still angry -- with no real reason. It was so unexpected to get an anger. Eventually, I asked myself if this feeling is a real me or not - and I noticed that it's not, it's just a sensation, and it got "separated" - I noticed that it's just as a sensation, without any "stickiness" to it, and it has helped to behaviour myself...
I searched in the internet, and seems it's like a "punishment" for the fear exodus!...

But still -- the anger is here. It's very unpleasant, and now I have to bring my relationships in order...
But this is fine, the question here -- is it okay, to have such an experience? What do I do with that, and what to expect with this next?..

Maybe I'm missing something, because I didn't read the book entirely, I just jumped to 7-Steps as it was offered in the beginning of the book and hoped for the best...

Anyway -- I would love to get some guidance here, if it's possible, for some clarity of what is going on with me.

Thank you again.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I'm a catholic for ~15 years, and in the beginning I was interested too much in different spiritual things related to Christianity (angels, daemons, you know).
4 years ago I found Eckhart Tolle, and then started to practice meditation. Since then I was never too much interested in any kind of spiritual theories, seems I became much more pragmatic in terms of "spirituality". At some moment I just started to feel, that there's something much more simple and directly related to the real life itself. All these angels, daemons, dharmas etc -- can wait until I become retired, when I'll got nothing to do -- I'll maybe speak about it to a stranger, seating somewhere on the bench... :-D

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[alexmed]

Would like to share an update.
By the end of writing the post above I discovered the anger is gone - just like there wasn't anything. Now I feel much more comfortable...
But still, I'm afraid I can get lost if would move completely on my own with the book...
Also sometimes I get lucky to see some of my physical sensations as a part of the big illusion of me - I can notice that "aha! this sensation I'm recognising as 'me' - but is it?.." and then sometimes I can notice it's not, and a "relief"/"release" is happening.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Alex,

Is that your name?

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

That's a lot going on. We're going to cover some basics, step by step. Okay?

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

One last thing, a definition of anger: anger is the attempt to do something contaminated by the illusion that you are presently helpless. Solution? Notice that you are *not* helpless & do something.

Loving,

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy, nice to meet you!

And thank you for this friendly offering to become my guide.

Yes, my name is Alex.

you must post every day

Yes, I will report every day; in worst case -- will let you know in this thread if I need more time.

Answering to your questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Recently I had a couple of "glimpses" for some time (which looks similar to how they describe it in the "Gatecrashers" book). I will share my experience below, and would say this is exactly what I'd expect in the end.

The latter of these insights lasted longer than the 1st; it happened 2 days ago, when I had managed to "see" the "I-label" (at least I'd call it so) during the evening walk - I felt it as a thin barely distinguishable layer between the my "eye-of-attention" and the I-sensation in my head. At that moment I felt it "un-sticking" from "me", I felt a "distance" between my perception and this label and its big tail of a bunch of other thoughts and feelings.

From that moment something started to happen automatically in my head while I (I couldn't even say "I" in that case - as there was no "I" anywhere), the experience was like that:
- All the thoughts and feelings were somewhere aside - my attention could notice them, but they were detouched, including feelings.
- Fears and anxieties were not convincing at all -- all of them were still here, but they were just grimacing, while I could look at them just like I'm in a Zoo calmly looking at scary roaring tigers in a cage.
- There was a space between the perception itself and all of these things, while the perception was just happening
- It was a relief, I (I?) didn't want to think about anything related to "search of freedom", I wanted to just be.
- Body became more relaxed and tired (it was also late evening and I was walking) - seems the accumulated tiredness just got being noticed at that moment.
- I couldn't (and didn't want to) even think about the "Me". It just "was".
- The search for the release stopped - nobody cared about that, I just noticed that and went flowing.
- Body was moving by itself, breathing was happening by itself...
- At the same time - everything was just as it was before, nothing special. The only new thing was a subtle "smell"/"taste" of the freshness.

The next day the I-feeling gradually grabbed me, and now I'm "here" again. Again believing in all these anxieties and fears, which grab my heart and head. :)

Also, I'm not 100% sure that I would notice all of these traits during several hours of the clear vision if I didn't read the "Gatecrashers" book.

If I'd just use my own words, I'd expect to lose the control which is grabbing me all the time, which pushes me to believe in all these fears and which is "me" at the moment. I'd like to exit from this tigers cage.

[alexmed]

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

"Alex" is good to me.

My timezone is Dublin/Ireland (+1 GMT).

[Anastacia42]

Hi Alex,

Yes, you saw no "self." That will come & go. Please watch these:

please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

What comes up when is read there's no "self, " that it's all just a made up story?

Please review how to use the Quote function from my first post. I read these on my phone. One question, quoted, then the answer underneath, not in Quotes.

Loving,

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy,

Yes, you saw no "self." That will come & go. Please watch these

Thank you! Yeah, I saw these videos some time ago in the forum, and now it's much more clear where and how to apply this. Will stick to Ilona's advises as well.

To add a bit more: today I notice a bit more spaciousness and some disconnectedness from my thoughts and feelings than yesterday. I'd say, today is a "light version" of what I had 3 days ago, and thoughts and emotions are easily sticking to me until I pay attention to it. Yeah, seems these "waves" would come and go, so my job is just keep working on it. "Today I Learned!" :)

What comes up when is read there's no "self, " that it's all just a made up story?

Now a light feeling of the offenсe in the heart is responding, combined with the tension in the heart area, connected with the tension in the forehead. Like "Why do you say so! I'm everything to you, and you say such words!"

Please review how to use the Quote function from my first post. I read these on my phone. One question, quoted, then the answer underneath, not in Quotes.

Sorry if I misunderstood this instruction. Hopefully this time it would be convenient for you to read.

Thank you very much!
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, good. It sounds like you are seeing no self sometimes. As the videos say, this will come and go. Let's get some basics handled and then see where you are.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[alexmed]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Seems this is clear to me, but would like to clarify. When we say "Seeing", "Hearing" etc - we mean the process itself, not its content, right? That is, we're not interested in what is the smell (because it'll be a thought I guess), but noticing the process of smelling.

[Anastacia42]

Yes, exactly. Good distinction.

This exercise & the next one may make that clearer:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy,

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

1) While sitting at the computer

Seeing the letters on the screen of how they appear, simply = image/color
Smelling the light scent of the room I sit in, simply = smell
Feeling how the keyboard buttons springing under my fingers, simply = sensation
Tasting the tea, simply = taste
Hearing the sound of the clicking keyboard buttons, simply = hearing
Thought about this text, simply = thought

(It's harder with "Seeing" to avoid labelling, especially with text)


2) While eating

Seeing the sandwich and a cup of tea, simply = image/color
Smelling the sandwich, simply = smell
Touching the cold plate and the warm sandwitch, simply = sensation
Tasting the sandwich, simply = taste
Hearing the music in the next room, simply = hearing
Thinking about my plan for the rest of the day, simply = thought


3) Sitting at rest

Seeing the window, simply = image/color
Smelling a piece of paper, simply = smell
Feeling the pressure of the backrest, simply = sensation
Feeling the aftertaste of lunch, simply = taste
Hearing the noise of the city, simply = hearing
Thought of what do I do tomorrow, simply = thought


Side note: That was not that easy to write it down, as it's much simpler to notice it in a relaxed way, rather than remember and take notes. :) At the same time, it's relaxing experience. Reminds me Staying right here right now according to Eckhart Tolle (maybe it's different, but Eckhart's practice is the only I know).


Thank you!
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Those are good, Alex. There was no need to look for one of each, but what you have is accurate.

Yes, this is a way to stay focused on here and now, which are really all there is. Anything we call "past" or "future" are just the content of thinking and do not exist right now.

Now, try this one, which takes it a step further:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[alexmed]

Hi Stacy,

That's interesting...

For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

With "I" label - tension in the head and heart when I mean that concretely I am sitting, I'm looking at smth, etc. And the body gets a bit more tense as a background,
Without "I" label - definitely relaxation in the entire body, it gradually becomes more and more deep.

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Without "I" label feels truer.

2. What is here without labels?

Relaxation, hearing, seeing, feeling, etc.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They "cover" it, make it incomplete, not full. Bring noise and tension.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Yeah. With "I" labels there is a tension, mostly in the head, in the heart and a bit in the body.

Thank you!
Alex.

[alexmed]

P.S. Not sure if it's important, but caught myself on a couple of obstacles:

1. When I needed to write down my direct experience yesterday, I was thinking: "My God, are you really gonna write like you're lying in your bed?!.. Looking at ceiling?.. C'mon, this is ridiculous! Don't write this silly things!.." And so on.
2. Noticed that sometimes I'm thinking like "Um... I should write it correctly. Otherwise what Stacy would think about that? Nooo, no, maybe better to write it like this or like that, otherwise it looks ugly!..."

And then I realized - this holds me back. Will try to move forward as is. :)

Thank you,
Alex.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Alex,

Your noticing in the exercise is good. How did it FEEL to SEE?

I really don't care whether you're lying in your bed doing this or standing on your head in the middle of the ocean or dancing a jig upside down. You're right - it matters not one bit what I think. Just do the exercise.

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.

We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,