Here

[heijahup]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Self is a concept created by the mind, it doesn't exist inherently on its own.

What are you looking for at LU?
Pointing, guidance to aid along the path. Sharing of experiences whether familiar or not would be appreciated. Finding out what methods worked for others could bring forth some insights for my journey.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
That the other might sense in my where I could be helped with specific pointing or framing of what I'm doing or not doing. A mirror to show my being what I'm currently doing and possibly what I'm overlooking.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A few years of self-educating and practice.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8

[Anastacia42]

Good morning (here in Colorado, US)

First, why just an 8 on willingness? It takes a lot of willingness to see through the lies we've been believing.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[heijahup]

Hellow Stacy and thank you for your consideration.

First, why just an 8 on willingness?

I guess I was thinking I have alot of willingness but maybe there's a notch or two above where I'm currently at that I'm not aware of.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Over the last 2-3 years there's rarely been a day that I haven't spent some time on this journey, whether it's inquiry, meditation, watching, or reading content. I have a daily reminder to check in, so I would expect I can participate to the extent you're looking for. For unforeseen events, I will do my best to notify you and be honest if for some reason something in life has presented itself that would prevent me from further participating. If you sense at anytime another teacher may be a better fit for me I am open to that as well.

I have read the disclaimer.

How will life change?

Life will become lighter, and the stickiness of thoughts and emotions will be reduced or eliminated. The experience of thoughts and feelings will not go away if anything they will become more direct and intense but the tendency for them to keep spinning and pulling my attention will reduce.

How will you change?

I or the sense of I will become more present with people and reality as a whole. I will become more compassionate and less reactive to the continual fluctuations of life happening.

What will be different?

Everything, as perceptual filters and identifying with the mind falls away, everything encountered in life will have a different view or flavor, it likely won't be drastic but still noticeable.

What is missing?

Perhaps nothing. I feel I've had some insights doing inquiry and digesting content about inquiry approaches etc.
I've heard many times that the search is right here, I might be nearing the edge and am willing to try more to possibly meander upon the edge so that I may jump.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Josh, cental time zone United States

[Anastacia42]

That's great, Josh. I'm near Boulder, Colorado.

Your expectations are pretty reasonable.

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate "self, " never has been & never will be? That it is all a made up story?

Loving,

[heijahup]

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate "self, " never has been & never will be? That it is all a made up story?

When I think about this, my mind goes to how humans label all things. For example, a tree, the label tree only exists in the thoughts and minds of humans, outside of the thought/mind realm there is nothing that exists separately or inherently as a tree, it's just thought stuff pointing to something in the relative world. When I look at a tree, it doesn't have big letters on it spelling "tree". If you take away the word "tree" and all its implications created from the mind, the thing that was referred to as "tree" still remains, unchanged.

What comes up next is to use that framework on the self, if I take away all the implications of "self" does what I take myself to be, disappear? Does what I'm existing as depend on the labels of "me, I, self, Josh" in order for it to exist? My intuition says no, but I feel like there might be further clarity and deepening of this understanding that I've yet to reach.

[Anastacia42]

Does what I'm existing as depend on the labels of "me, I, self, Josh" in order for it to exist?

Very good! In fact, yes, as you will see!

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Much love,

[heijahup]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I'm clear
That was helpful

[Anastacia42]

Good, Josh. Now try this:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[heijahup]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Reading/Responding to email:

Seeing the computer screen, simply= image/color
Smelling the room, simply = smell
Feeling the keyboard keys, simply = sensation
Tasting of the mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the other voices in the room and the ventilation, simply = sound
Thought about the content of the email, simply = thought

Engaging in conversation with coworkers:

Seeing the person, simply= image/color
Smelling the room, simply = smell
Feeling the body in the chair, simply = sensation
Tasting of the mouth, simply = taste
Hearing my voice, the other person's voice, ventilation in room simply = sound
Thoughts arising as conversation progresses, simply = thought

Eating lunch:
Seeing the food, simply = image/color
Smelling the food, simply = smell
Feeling the food as its chewed, simply = sensation
Tasting of the food, simply = taste
Hearing the sounds of the room, simply = sound
Thoughts arising and passing, simply = thought

Driving:
Seeing the car controls, road, other cars, simply = image/color
Smelling the car, simply = smell
Feeling the body in the seat, simply = sensation
Tasting of the mouth, simply = taste
Hearing the radio and other traffic noises, simply = sound
Thought about driving and other miscellaneous thinking, simply = thought

I felt a greater familiarity with touching in with the present experience with this exercise.

Thank you

[Anastacia42]

Beautiful, Josh. Well done!

Now try this:

Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[heijahup]

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
No. Without the I label feels more intimate.
2. What is here without labels?
Everything is still happening.
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
I first thought no reality is the same, but more time with the question, I'd say yes if affects the "experience" as it seems a bit lighter.
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
Dropping the label "I" seems to result in a lighter feeling in the body, like there's less contraction. Kind of like trying to direct a stream, instead of just letting it flow without the effort of trying to control it.

[Anastacia42]

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I read on my phone. This is important.

Thank you,

[Anastacia42]

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[heijahup]

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Yes. When my dad asked about a scratch on the car I had made, I said I didn't know how it had happened.

What is found?

Tightness and contraction in the stomach area, general feeling of unease.

Do you see that?

Yes

[Anastacia42]

Great. Now let's look at this:

Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN' , what is the actual experience?

Is the color red ‘experienced’, or is the color green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’ , is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Let me know what is SEEN in Direct Experience.

Loving,