Hi from Izzy

[Izzy2022]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Throughout my life, I've sometimes had the experience of feeling that everything is just happening without 'me' doing anything. In the past I found these experiences disorientating and frightening but now I feel I'd like to explore them a bit more fully as it feels as if they are more 'real' than my normal day to day experience.

What are you looking for at LU?
some help and guidance to explore a different way of experiencing life that involves being caught up less in an idea of the self which I have an intuition is limiting me in some way. I've sometimes felt alone with these ideas and would like to be part of a community of others who are interested in these matters

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
to have assistance from someone more experienced to see what is helpful and what is not in exploring what seems to be the self. I can sometimes find myself switching off or going into discursive thoughts if I try to do this alone

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have quite a bit of experience in Buddhist meditation and have also read Buddhist teachings on emptiness, but not in any real depth

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

everything is just happening without 'me' doing anything.

This is true. Notice any relaxation or lightness in your body as you consider this, usually in the gut or heart.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

Would you still like to be guided here?

Loving,

[Izzy2022]

Dear Stacy thanks so much for replying and offering to be my guide. I have had to go away at short notice until 5th Jan and I won’t be able to post every day until then - could you still be my guide. I am definitely not a cynical person so maybe you would suit me well as a guide if you can still do it!

[Anastacia42]

Yes, that will be fine. Please just let me know when you're back.

[Anastacia42]

From Ilona

Hi everyone. Happy New year!

This Sunday at 3pm GMT, 7pm Mauritius time join the group for deep looking exploration. All are welcome, no matter where you are, what questions you have, what difficult emotions are visiting, all can be met with honouring and gentleness.

Email to admin@ilonaciunaite.com for a link.

Hope to see you there!

[Izzy2022]

Hello Stacy I am back now and I will post answers to the questions you previously set and will be able to post every day. If you can't be my guide then do let me know. I am in London UK time zone.

[Izzy2022]

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it.

yes I have read it, thank you

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

you can call me Izzy, I am in UK time zone

That was the easy bit! Now for your other questions about exploration.....

How will life change?

Life may well be the same in terms of what I do... maybe less hiding, less superficiality. Life will flow more easily, get less snagged up in the same old self-perpetuating habits of mind that feel like me.

How will you change?

I don't think my personality, habits, thoughts will change. But maybe I won't get so caught up in them, believe them in the same way, feel so defensive. I am so sick of the same old patterns of thought, inaction, anxiety, loneliness. But it feels like there is also a security in these patterns, a familiarity. I can sometimes even feel on more solid ground when I am in those patterns, there is a fear that without their solidity I will fall apart. I have had occasional experiences for many years since childhood that there's no 'me', just habits and thoughts but in the past they have sometimes been followed by great fear.

What will be different?

There will be less fear, someone to relate to me in this way will show me that I don't cease to exist if I am willing to look at this more directly. Maybe I will feel more a part of life.
Thank you Stacy I hope these answers can provide a starting point for our conversation.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning/ evening, Izzy,

I'm near Boulder, Colorado in the US Mountain Time.

Yes, that's just too check for expectations. Yours are pretty reasonable. Be aware that 24/7 seeing no self is a myth. It will come & go.

Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate self and never has been? That it is a made up story.


Much love,

[Izzy2022]

Good morning Stacy, thank you for replying so quickly to me.

Now, what comes up when is read that there is no separate self and never has been? That it is a made up story

I just watched those two videos and my heart is beating hard. I felt some things I did not expect. First excitement, then grief, then I am very surprised to say, some anger. First maybe both excitement and grief about the 'perfect' (or certainly 'better'!) person I see I have always wanted to be. I don't have to be that person - excitement. I could never have been that person - grief. For all the efforts I have made when actually there is not even an imperfect me. "is this it?" - anger. It can't be simple because otherwise I am stupid.
Now I am thinking more... letting thoughts unfold a bit more slowly..... why does this feel so strong, that there never has been a separate self? At times I have felt something that can just rest, just be. But then in different situations an experience of the old 'me' rising up in defensiveness, in feeling bad, or incompetent or unkind, or hurt. And that has felt more real to me. Is it possible really to let all that fall away? I don't know. I realise there is a thought there that this is for others, not me. That is old and familiar too. What if that isn't true?

[Izzy2022]

I realise reading again my last post that something is not clear. When I say

there is a thought there that this is for others, not me

what I meant was that this process of seeing is something others can do but I can't. I don't believe I will feel like the lights are going on. Could it feel more like a sliding away or unsticking?

[Anastacia42]

Hi Izzy,

These kinds of things are exactly what that question is designed to find out. Is there fear? Doubt? Etc.

Trust me when I say that the only way to really fail is to quit. If you keep doing the pointers, you are fairly certain to see that there is no self. It is *obvious*. We've just layered a lot of lying thoughts of the obvious.

First, let's handle the anxiety, the fear.

Here is an anxiety exercise that focuses a person in the present, and in a part of the brain that cannot do anxiety. Basically, go through each sense and say (or think) "I see/ hear/ feel/ taste/ touch ______________." A minute or two of each and usually anxiety is gone.

I see the couch.
I see the keyboard.
I see the glass. Etc.

I hear the train.
I hear the keys clacking.
I hear my breath. Etc.

I feel the couch under my butt.
I feel my fingers on the keys.
I feel the cold air. Etc.

I taste a metallic taste in my mouth.
I taste the coffee.
I taste the food. Etc.

I smell the humidity in the air.
I smell my husband's shampoo.
I smell the soap. Etc.

As far as I can tell, the only time this doesn't work is when someone won't do it.

ALSO, here is a video Ilona did to help folks look *past* the fear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKX1llYtlKE

Work with those a bit and reply with how things shift. They should. But let me know if they don't, too.

Loving,

[Izzy2022]

Thank you Stacy.
Today has been a strange day. Yesterday in our exchanges I could feel a fizz of excitement. Today I woke and was so tired I just wanted to sleep all day, but I don't know why I felt this. I could feel I didn't want to reply to your message but I undertook to post each day so I sat and watched the video on fear. I could feel myself not wanting to invite the fear closer but I let it happen. Noticing all the sensations as the questions came up. Fear of loneliness, of being crazy, fear of huge huge boredom. But just gently allowing myself to notice what is there - my hand reaching for the mouse, my breath happening, the thoughts coming more slowly. Then the bit I loved most was right at the end when Ilona said "enjoy your day" in such a light way and something seemed to drop into what felt like okay-ness. So then I could feel a switching between "is this IT? all there is? just this happening? no grand plan to hook on to, to make everything better?" and also just the gentle "okay-ness" of things.
Some more thoughts: if there isn't an "I" then somehow I am just a part of what is happening here. Other people's views of me are just like mine. Not any more or less real. There can feel like such a pull to go back to the planning and self-improvement. But as I sit here now, there is a great energy in my body and the tiredness has just gone. I'm tapping on the keyboard. I'm wondering what you will think when you read it. Maybe somewhere I'm still longing for some sort of peak experience. And at the same time I feel I have slid into a different way of seeing , feeling. It's quite easy when it happens. And now I can feel myself almost wanting the fear to return because it feels so familiar, so like me. What would I be without the fear? Just this

[Anastacia42]

Okay, I understand you've lived your whole life talking about your thoughts. It's time to stop that or you will not SEE.

I understand wanting a peak experience. That might happen. It might not.

Keep letting go of fears, use the video & the anxiety pointer to focus only on here & now.

"Gentle okay-ness" is great! Who wants to be in drama & crisis all the time? Not this one!

You're doing great. You're preservering even when you don't feel like it. Good work!

Practice with the anxiety pointer & Ilona's video a little more & any time fear comes up.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Meeting invitation:

Hi! For the ones that aren't in Vince's emailing list this is a email message from a member of the that group that may interest you:

"Greetings LU Community,

Some of you have mentioned Dr. Angelo Dillulo during our LU zoom calls. Angelo has agreed to join us for our next meeting, 1/16 at 6am Eastern Australia time, 1/15 at 11am Sunday PST, 2pm EST, 7pm London time.

https://dateful.com/time-zone-converter

We hope you can join us."

Write vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link to the meeting.

Loving,