I’ve had a first awakening. Where do I go from here?

[Abigail75]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I know there is no “self”, partially for experience and partially intellectually. Last January I had a first awakening, and a good chunk of my ego structure went away with it. I feel instinctively that this is the case, although I haven’t realized completely that there is no self here. I understand it takes time, but I’m willing to investigate it.
What are you looking for at LU? Guidance and clarification. I’ve been watching videos and reading a lot about non duality and no self in the last year. One of the most helpful is Angelo DiLullo from Simply Always Awake. He always emphasizes the importance of talking to someone who has been on this “path” before, to avoid pitfalls and to help see things more clearly. I want to know the truth of who I am (of what it all is), through my experience, as deep as possible. It’s the most important thing in my life. I’m not desperate, I understand it takes time, I’m not in suffering anymore. I just want to know. (There’s a lot of “I” in this paragraph, but I know no other way to say these things).
What do you expect from a guided conversation? I’ve never talked about it to anyone, except in YT videos comments, and the response I got sometimes was surprisingly helpful. I expect to share my experience and get guidance, insights and another point of view on things, from someone who understand what’s going on, and that it will help me avoid pitfalls and to see things more clearly. I noticed, by reading the comments and listening to other people’s stories, that this realization happens in different ways, but there are some similarities to it.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? Until the middle of last year, I was a materialist atheist. I was in so much suffering, my life situation deteriorated a lot in the last 4 years. For some reason I started look for some comfort in Alan Watts videos on YT, then Buddhist videos, then I started to meditate, but not very regularly. Then I remembered an experience that I had some 3 years ago, that had been “buried” in my subconscious: I remembered that I saw reality as oneness, where everything was one, made out of energy and golden lights (something like that). After that I think YT recommended me Angelo’s channel (Simply Always Awake), I read The Power of Now, and I read Angelo’s book Awake, It’s Your Turn. It felt so right! I had never felt passionate about anything in my whole life, but that message resonated with me in a way that I never thought possible. I started to do some self inquiry, but I’m sure that the awakening that happened in January of this year was spontaneous. Everything was very fast and intense. Since then, I have been reading and trying to deepen my understand more and more. But my practice has been only to surrender, as much as I can . I feel that the best I can do is not to get in the way of it. But I don’t know if that’s enough.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[warissem]

Hi

I am glad to walk with you and help you see through the illusion of a separate self.
I invite you to read the disclaimer text and learn how to use the quote function.

I recommend to you to come once a day in the forum to give your answers and look at my questions and comments. It is important to maintain the flow of looking at direct experience.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem
I’ve just read the disclaimer text and I will start to read “Gateless Gatecrashers”.
I’m not sure where to start now. I don’t
know if I should tell more about my experience, or about the questions that I have right now.
I believe I’m going through what Angelo DiLullo calls in his book “spiritual no person’s land”, a period of disorientation when in one day the person feels the expansion of being connected with the universe, and then next can feel sad, frustrated and very much separated.
That’s more or less how my life has been in the last month or so (I noticed that I feel time passing by more slowly lately).
I don’t have any specific spiritual practice right now.
Should I meditate? Or do some specific inquiry?
Thank you very much for reading and helping me in all this”.
:)

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

Nice to meet you here. To begin with, I would like to know about your expectations :

What is liberation to be like ?
What changes are you expecting ?

Warissem

[Abigail75]

I understand liberation as the full recognition that there is absolutely no self “inside” the body-mind, that what I really am is the consciousness that you and everyone and everything else are. The full recognition of the true nature. And, with this recognition, being able to live according to the intelligence that comes directly from the true nature. I understand liberation as a full integration with everything. I have no doubt that that is possible and available to me (to all). My expectation is that I will be able to live following the flow of life itself, with no resistance.
I know these words seem like something I read or heard someone saying, and they sound beautiful, and I’m just repeating them, but I really see them as truth.
I don’t expect that life is like a fairy tale to liberated people, but my own life has changed so much after my experience, after I found a place of equanimity in me and after what I considered myself to be has changed, that I can’t help but have these expectations.
I lived in so much suffering, and most of it is gone, or at least now I can look at it in a totally different perspective.
I also have a strong desire to be able to help others to understand it too. But that is, of course, very far from where I am now.
I read and heard it more than once, that the liberation of one individual is not for that individual, but it’s in benefit for everyone, and it really touched me. I understand liberation as the full recognition that there is absolutely no self “inside” the body-mind, that what I really am is the consciousness that you and everyone and everything else are. The full recognition of the true nature. And, with this recognition, being able to live according to the intelligence that comes directly from the true nature. I understand liberation as a full integration with everything. I have no doubt that that is possible and available to me (to all). My expectation is that I will be able to live following the flow of life itself, with no resistance.
I know these words seem like something I read or heard someone saying, and they sound beautiful, and I’m just repeating them, but I really see them as truth.
I don’t expect that life is like a fairy tale to liberated people, but my own life has changed so much after my experience, after I found a place of equanimity in me and after what I considered myself to be has changed, that I can’t help but have these expectations.
I lived in so much suffering, and most of it is gone, or at least now I can look at it in a totally different perspective.
I also have a strong desire to be able to help others to understand it too. But that is, of course, very far from where I am now.
I read and heard it more than once, that the liberation of one individual is not for that individual, but it’s in benefit for everyone, and it really touched me.

[warissem]

Good evening

I am glad to read about your expectations. Just let them aside during ou dialog. Now, what is arising as thoughts, sensations in the body, emotions when you read this :

There is no you in any shape or form, there never was, it will never be.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Good evening Warissem,

My first reaction when I read it was of a bit of sensation of fear in my gut, to which I felt pleasantly surprised, since I haven’t felt psychological fear for a while now.
I don’t disagree with that affirmation at all.
When I think about it, I can intellectually and instinctively see that it is true, although I haven’t embodied it yet (obviously).
Of course something inside me (the ego, I think) will resist the idea. But I guess that’s the gate I want to go through.

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

You used the words "I", "me" in your post. Look at this "I" and describe it. Look during half a day : what is this "I", where is it ?

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Good evening, Warissem

I’ve been thinking about the “I” since yesterday. The “I”, in my experience, is an idea, it’s not an entity that it’s possible to find anywhere, to pinpoint. It seems to be the dimension where all the experience converges. But it’s not a fixed point anywhere, not even in my mind, or inside my brain. But I can’t say that the idea of an “I” doesn’t exist. Sometimes I feel that I am the field of consciousness where all the experience (seeing, hearing, feeling, perceptions and thinking ) happens, and the “I” is the one who notices all of that. I can see that the thinking happens without me choosing them, and it’s possible to not believe all the thoughts, or to choose not to follow a train of thought, or even have periods without any thoughts. But, honestly, it doesn’t happen automatically, all the time.
I can contemplate and understand the idea that there is no “I” here, but honestly, I don’t feel like that.

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

After having read your last post, I think that you need to be clear about Looking at direct experience. As you know there is a difference between going through a map and going through the territory. Example : when I ask a question like this :
What is the color of the sky in this moment ?

There are 2 ways to answer to the question /

1. Through memory or thoughts,
OR
2. Through direct experience, DE : you open the window, LOOK AT the sky and SEE the color (blue, cloudy, ...). Here the answer is SEEN not guessed not given through logical thinking or through memory or from the last watched video.

This way of doing is the KEY used to give answers to all my questions which are pointers, it will be used to go through some exercises of investigation.

Looking at direct experience is SIMPLE. Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching (or sensations). Thoughts and concepts are used for communication.

To be familiar with this way of looking at things, look at all what is around you during an hour and classify the objects as :

Table = Colors, shapes, = seeing
Table = textures = touching
Youtube voice = sound = hearing
Etc ...

All what is superimposed on seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting and touching are thoughts, concepts, labels. Thoughts are of two kinds :
1. Thoughts pointing to direct experience. Example : a table, a tree
2. Thoughts pointing to other thoughts. Example : society, belief, american, ...

Observe your thoughts during a half day and classify them as 1 or 2.

Let me know about what is going on.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem

Thank you for your answers to my posts. :)

I’ve done the activities that you suggested.
About the thoughts, I noticed that most of them, almost all of them really, were of the second type: thoughts pointing to other thoughts.
When I took the time to look at the objects directly, labeling them as seeing, touching, hearing and so on, it was easy at first, but very quickly thoughts about labels started to appear. I could quickly dismiss them, coming back to the direct experience.
The will to include “here” and “now” sensations (bringing my attention to the fact that I am here and now) appeared often. That’s what I usually do when I try to center myself, when my mind starts to wander too much.
But I tried to stick to the senses, and I think that it brought a bit more of clarity and stillness to the mind.

[warissem]

Good morning Abigail

Good observations, I think you are clear about direct experience and thought stories. Now, there is a question :

I, me, mine are used all along : do they belong to direct experience or to thought stories ?

Look before giving any answer. See the truth of the answer.

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem,

I spent more time looking at direct experience. It’s a completely impersonal experience. There is no I, my or mine, it’s just seeing, hearing, touching, smelling and tasting.
The I, my and mine appear only when a story is constructed about the objects that are being observed.
I also noticed that some feelings in my body (discomfort caused by negative thoughts) are also just sensations, as also being impersonal, not necessarily related to the story my life was telling. Is that correct?

[warissem]

Hi Abigail

You have done good observations. It is fine that you make distinction between sensations and thought story. You can do the same distinction to other senses like :

What is seen and the labels, thoughts about it
What is heard and the labels, thoughts about it.

Now, I invite you to deepen the seeing of the body through this investigation.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Best for you

Warissem

[Abigail75]

Hi Warissem
I’ve been investigating the body, as you suggested, and I noticed this:
The boundaries between the body and clothes, or the chair, are very undefined, very fluid.
With the eyes closed, the shape, weight and size are undefined.
I am aware of my body all the time, but I can’t define it as “me”.
The “me” is something that accompanies the body.
I have the impression that the body is the point of convergence of the emotions, sensations, senses, etc.
About the question “is there an inside and an outside “, after a good time of investigation, the answer is: I don’t know. I can’t find where the the line dividing the outside and the inside would be.
I thought that at least the sensations that refer to the inside of the body (muscles, stomach, etc), I would feel that they are definitely inside, but these sensations are felt in the same “place” where I feel cold, or fear, or where I listen sounds or sense smells.
And this “place” is somewhere around my head, but I can’t pinpoint where, exactly.
Is this the right way to look? Is that the inquiry that I should do?
Thank you.