Realisation please. Thank you

[Adi]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? That there is a guide that helps me to see that the individual I believe I am is in fact an illusion, a thought, a belief and does not really exist.

What are you looking for at LU? I would like to see Truth. I understand everything theoretically but still, daily I identify with Adi, myself and would do mostly things that are most comfortable for her and avoid discomfort as much as possible.
Although I sit and read, spend a lot of time by myself and actually not even excessively seeking, I never had an experience to reassure me that separation is an illusion. I did not experience it but yes, reading through western and eastern philosophy, world religions and contemporary non-dual texts and experiences, makes me think that there’s something I am missing or not tapped into. I have read and heard that LU helps with that. Helps with a shift from the point that life filtered by belief and an imaginary ego to an authentic Seeing.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Whatever it takes for me to realise. I would like it to be instant of course, but I’m also afraid, and I believe that’s my block. I would like someone who will not be off put by my fear and will guide me confidently.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I started with Goenka’s Vipassana 10 day silence retreat in 2014 and from then sat almost daily. Through that time I started following Adyashanti, and In 2019 I discovered Nisaragadata , Byron Katie and non duality, it really took me from wanting to eliminate myself to understanding (in mind only) that there’s no self to eliminate. In 2020 I moved to Zazen meditation and was part of a zen group which I have now left. And this is the way I sit ever since, every morning.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

I'm not worried any your fears. What are you afraid of?

Loving,

Stacy

[Adi]

Hi Stacy,
Thank you very much for willing to be my guide. I appreciate it!
Yes. I will write every day.

How will life change?

As I imagine it anyway if there is no personal self, there is no one for me to protect or to want to please all the time in order to belong or not feeling dismissed. Following that way of being, resistance, opinion and plans for things to go my way will either not matter or not exist.

How will you change?

I will be just ok with what is. I will not be confronting and aggressive in my speech or try to please people, on the other hand. I will no feel separate, different or lacking. I will stop try to compensate others for being lacking. I will stop comparing my life with others', I might be able to finally be in a mature non toxic relationship. I might be able to live in peace with people instead of being in a constant love/hate struggle.

What will be different?

Everything. Life will be peaceful even when the circumstances are less joyful.

What is missing?

Sense of belonging, sense of security, love. Courage, creativity.

What would you like for me to call you?

Adi, please.

What time zone are you in, please?

BST (I live in London, UK).

I'm not worried any your fears. What are you afraid of?

I fear disappearing and be "consumed" by a panic attack or a feeling of death that one has in it, if you know it.

Thanks again
Adi

[Anastacia42]

Hi Adi

Welcome. I'm in Colorado in the US.

How dud you find our site?

Your expectations are mostly reasonable. Just beware of thinking that life is going to be a breeze, because there will still be the same challenges there have always been. But yes, there will be an underlying sense of peace.

Have you read any of Gateless Gatecrashers? It's available here under resources books.

Now what comes up when you read that there is no self never has been and never will be? You mentioned a fear and a fear of death. Remember that there has always been no self.

Loving,

Stacy

[Anastacia42]

Also,

Next meeting on zoom

Time: 4th of September 2022, at 7 pm - 9 pm Mauritius time, (3 pm to 5 pm GMT)

Link to all Zoom Meetings
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/9143364592?pw ... VEMHg2Zz09

Meeting ID: 914 336 4592
Passcode: LU2021

Countdown timer to the correct time.

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/g ... nt=cursive

The event is free. If you like to express appreciation you can make a donation through PayPal using this link. https://www.paypal.me/Ilonaciunaite All donations are gratefully received.

Looking forward to our meeting.

With love,
Ilona

[Adi]

Hi Stacy

Thanks! We have a bit of a time difference between us, then.

How dud you find our site?

I ran into a Facebook post of a friend of a friend, she has a page called "Finding Awakening" She mentioned Liberation Unleashed and Gateless Gatecrashers book as the key to her realisation.

Have you read any of Gateless Gatecrashers? It's available here under resources books.

Partly. I started reading Gateless Gatecrashers before coming to this forum, because of her.

Now what comes up when you read that there is no self never has been and never will be? You mentioned a fear and a fear of death. Remember that there has always been no self.

On one hand, when I read it, it does not do anything to me, because I do not feel or believe that there is no self, I did not have any experience / proof. On the other hand, I believe it just like believing that smoking is bad for you because of years of research and cross reference. I hope it makes sense? It's like someone tells you that you will die one day. You know it's true (in duality anyway) but can you actually believe it? I cannot feel the belief in my own death, although people have been dying since forever.

Re fear- Fear of losing myself comes from the feeling of being unseen, of not being recognised/ acknowledged by others which was for me not existing at all. I was struggling with that, had panic attacks until I started going to therapy and gained some since of independence, and now it seems that I should go the other way around and undo it? So I fear it may bring this feeling of panic, of death and of complete loss of control.

Thanks so much
Adi

[Anastacia42]

Hi Adi,

Yes, I believe you are 7 hours ahead of me.

I know Christiane. She used to guide here before she created her own work in the Ten Fetters.

I hear you about beliefs and not being sure. That's fine.

Re fear- Fear of losing myself comes from the feeling of being unseen, of not being recognised/ acknowledged by others which was for me not existing at all. I was struggling with that, had panic attacks until I started going to therapy and gained some since of independence, and now it seems that I should go the other way around and undo it? So I fear it may bring this feeling of panic, of death and of complete loss of control.

First, you will have to take full responsibility for this inquiry and its effects. Obviously, especially clear across the ocean, I cannot. Even if I were sitting right next to you, this would be your responsibility. I cannot say whether anything here will cause panic or fear of death. As far as "complete loss of control," here we understand that there is no control. One of my teachers, who had very curly hair, almost an Afro, he is of Israeli cultural descent, used to say that as soon as he could control having a bad hair day, he'd look at other things, but in the meantime, it was pretty clear that he had no control over anything. :)

But the real point here is that there is no need for control. We've never had it and things are just fine.

Do you have resources, people you can talk with if you find yourself in a panic? Please mention what those are. And who?

Here is how we look:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

So, tell me, are you willing to take full responsibility for your well-being, especially if you start to panic?

Loving,
Stacy

[Adi]

Hi Stacy,

Yes, Christiane. She wrote on her page about the socks too.

First, you will have to take full responsibility for this inquiry and its effects. Obviously, especially clear across the ocean, I cannot. Even if I were sitting right next to you, this would be your responsibility. I cannot say whether anything here will cause panic or fear of death.

Thanks for making sure. Yes, I am 100 percent responsible for myself and my fears. I know no one can deal with them for me. Not sure if I can ask you about your personal experience so please feel free to not answer if it isn't. Did you feel a fear of death in your realisation?

As far as "complete loss of control," here we understand that there is no control. One of my teachers, who had very curly hair, almost an Afro, he is of Israeli cultural descent, used to say that as soon as he could control having a bad hair day, he'd look at other things, but in the meantime, it was pretty clear that he had no control over anything. :)

Good example:) I've heard that curls have lives of their own and also it's funny that you mentioned he is an Israeli, as I am an Israeli too.

Do you have resources, people you can talk with if you find yourself in a panic? Please mention what those are. And who?

I do. I always have my tablets with me for an "emergency". I did not have a panic attack in years. Also, my siblings and I are very close and we are available for each other always.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I do (I think) we see by using our senses in the moment and not by filtering through the mind or memory.

So, tell me, are you willing to take full responsibility for your well-being, especially if you start to panic?

Absolutely!

Thank you,
Adi

[Anastacia42]

Okay, Adi, good.

Did you feel a fear of death in your realisation?

No, I did a weekend meditation class that showed me how laughable that was back in 2007. If you'll PM me am email address, I'll share the recordings of those from my Dropbox.



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

~ Stacy

[Adi]

Hi Stacy,

No, I did a weekend meditation class that showed me how laughable that was back in 2007. If you'll PM me am email address, I'll share the recordings of those from my Dropbox.

Quite amazing, how lucky are you. And thank you. I just have.

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Ok. I will start now and will report.

Thank you
Adi

[Anastacia42]

Sent.

Also, no need to post the entire exercise back to me.

Just post a Quoted Question, then your reply not in quote underneath.

Thanks,
Stacy

[Adi]

Hi Stacy

Below is my report from yesterday and this morning.
I hope I wrote it correctly:

Writing an email
Seeing screen letters, words, simply = screen, letter, words
Smelling food, simply = smell
Feeling the keys / keyboard, simply = sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply = taste
Hearing typing on the keyboard, simply = sound
Thought about writing an email, simply = thought

Washing dishes
Seeing a cup, foam, water, simply = cup, foam, water
Smelling Chlorin and soap, simply= smell
Feeling the warmth of the water and the foam on my hands, simply= sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply= taste
Hearing the water runing, simply=sound
Thought about washing dishes, simply =thought

Cutting a sweatshirt
Seeing a sweatshirt and scissors , simply =sweatshirt, scissors
Smelling laundry detergent, simply = smell
Feeling the softness of the sweatshirt the coldness of the scissors in my hands, simply = sensation
Tasting taste of coffee, simply = taste
Hearing scissors cutting, simply = sound
Thought about cutting a sweatshirt, simply = thought

Making coffee
Seeing a cup, simply= cup
Smelling coffee, simply=smell
Feeling the hard handle of the kettle, simply= sensation
Tasting minty taste of toothpaste, simply= taste
Hearing no sound, simply = sound
Thought about making coffee, simply= thought

Thanks
Adi

[Anastacia42]

Hi Adi,

No. Only Direct Experience from the green list above goes on the right. The point is to learn to distinguish DE from our made up labels & stories. Unfortunately, you put made up labels on the right.

Seeing screen letters, words, simply = screen, letter, words

Should be:

Seeing screen letters, words, simply = Images or Seeing. .


Please try again or ask a question if this isn't clear.

Much love,

Stacy

[Anastacia42]

Many are correct:

Smelling food, simply = smell
Feeling the keys / keyboard, simply = sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply = taste
Hearing typing on the keyboard, simply = sound
Thought about writing an email, simply = thought

Smelling Chlorin and soap, simply= smell
Feeling the warmth of the water and the foam on my hands, simply= sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply= taste
Hearing the water runing, simply=sound
Thought about washing dishes, simply =thought

Smelling coffee, simply=smell
Feeling the hard handle of the kettle, simply= sensation
Tasting minty taste of toothpaste, simply= taste
Hearing no sound, simply = sound
Thought about making coffee, simply= thought


For some reason only the first one in each set is wrong. What was going on there?

Loving,

Stacy

[Adi]

Hi Stacy,
Thanks for clarifying.

What was going on there?

I do not understand things on the first go, rarely have. I am not sure still that I did understand. I think usually when I am eager to complete a task already, it happens to me.

I left everything the same except for the Seeing part, which I hope I correctly amended.

Seeing screen letters, words, simply = images
Smelling food, simply = smell
Feeling the keys / keyboard, simply = sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply = taste
Hearing typing on the keyboard, simply = sound
Thought about writing an email, simply = thought

Seeing a cup, foam, water, simply = images
Smelling Chlorin and soap, simply= smell
Feeling the warmth of the water and the foam on my hands, simply= sensation
Tasting taste of nothing specific, simply= taste
Hearing the water runing, simply=sound
Thought about washing dishes, simply =thought

Seeing a sweatshirt and scissors, simply = images
Smelling coffee, simply=smell
Feeling the hard handle of the kettle, simply= sensation
Tasting minty taste of toothpaste, simply= taste
Hearing no sound, simply = sound
Thought about making coffee, simply= thought

Seeing a cup, simply= image
Smelling coffee, simply=smell
Feeling the hard handle of the kettle, simply= sensation
Tasting minty taste of toothpaste, simply= taste
Hearing no sound, simply = sound
Thought about making coffee, simply= thought

Thank you
Adi