Stuck in fear

[nellie]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I understand this to be there is not a me or an I, that it is purely an illusion created by thought. Without thought nothing really exits apart from consciousness and thought has ceated this idendity, this story of a me with a personality and beliefs and concepts. The problem is i am believing it, everyday of my life.

What are you looking for at LU? I feel that on a certain level I understand the concept of no self but I am unable to put it into practise. I have fleeting moments where its very clear and then i fall back into the illusion. I have alot of fear around death, my death and the death of others which completely goes against the idea of a no self.
I guess I'm looking to move away from fear and develop more of an awareness and to detach from this idea of a seperate self.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I expect guidance on how to look and where to look to rid myself of this attachment. For someone to point me in the right direction and to teel me when I am going off track or maybe focusing on elements that are not important.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have been reading spiritual books for the last ten years. These days I tend to focus on the 4 questions of Byron katie and asking if everything is true. This seems to help alot. I have read all the books by Tolle and also try and apply the practises to my daily life but nothing is ever sustainable. I get lost in the dream of me.
I get extremely frustrated as sometimes it all seems impossible, its like being dragged under water with thought and it leaves no room for anything that is real.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[warissem]

Hi

I am here to accompany you to see through the illusion of a separate self.

There is a need to accept some rules of the forum :

Come here once a day to give answers to the questions : if you cannot do it, let me know
Be honest when giving the answers : that is to be sure that the answer has been seen not read in books or heard in audios or videos
Read the disclaimer text here : viewtopic.php?f=16&t=221
Learn how to use the quote function here : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Let me know when ready

Best wishes

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

Thank you for your reply, I’m ready when you are.
Regards
nel

[warissem]

Good evening

What will be the changes in life after seeing through the illusion of separate self?

What is missing to stop the seeking ? What are you looking for ?

Best wishes

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

What will be the changes in life after seeing through the illusion of separate self?

I think the simple answer the this is freedom. Freedom from the connection I have with the self. This feeling of self importance of uniqueness. That what I think is real and true and important! And it’s all nonsense, sometimes I see this very clearly but it’s fleeting.

What is missing to stop the seeking ? What are you looking

Fear, of losing the idea of self. Often when I go inside to look, it causes a real tension within my body, it’s like I contract, like I’m blocked. Part of me doesn’t want to see because then what…?
I am looking for the truth, to question everything that appears to be real as in me, my personality, the fact I think I have control and make choices. How am I that naïve to think this is true? But it’s so deeply ingrained sometimes I don’t see a way put of it.

Many thanks

nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

First, we need to be clear about Looking at direct experience : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching (sensations). Concepts are used to communicate. During this dialog, you look at direct experience before giving answers. Example : what is the color of the sky now ? The answer must be given through direct experience : it means you stouch through a window, look at the sky and SEE its color. If it is not clear for you, I'll give other examples.

Fear, of losing the idea of self.

You said it "idea of self" : are you afraid to lose the idea of a unicorn ? There is no self to lose because it does not exist at the first place.

Often when I go inside to look, it causes a real tension within my body, it’s like I contract, like I’m blocked. Part of me doesn’t want to see because then what…?

Look again at this tension : like it, look at it from all the angles and tell me what is behind it.

Kind regards

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

ou said it "idea of self" : are you afraid to lose the idea of a unicorn ? There is no self to lose because it does not exist at the first place.

No I’m not afraid of losing the idea of a unicorn as I haven’t thought that I’m a unicorn for the last 40 years. And if I had thought I was a unicorn all this time losing the idea of that would be equally as hard.

Look again at this tension : like it, look at it from all the angles and tell me what is behind it.

It is just sensation. Like energy. Everything else is an overlay of thought. Thought distracts me, tells me I have something better to do. It interprets the sensation.

Many thanks
Nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

Good. There is an exercise for you.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

[/Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear? quote]
They appear randomly, it can flit from one thought to another, there doesn’t seem to be any logic or order, but it seems one thought can lead onto another after it has appeared. As in I can have a thought about breakfast, and then another, I should get up, I’ll go to the bakery etc.

No I didn’t do anything to make them appear, I was surprised by it’s sporadic nature.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?

Not at the exact moment, no, but it feels that some thoughts can be dismissed easier than others or that awareness kicks in and I’m aware that it’s a thought and an refocus on the present.

No I can not predict my next thought but I can probably guarantee it will be rubbish;)

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
No, when I tried this, it’s forcing something and again is just more thought,’ you can’t think that it’s negative’ ´think something more positive’ it’s impossible because you can’t control the appearance of thoughts.
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No but you can change the attachment to them when they arise. not just negative ones but all.

[nellie]

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

Thought makes you believe you can. For example if I say think of a black cat the image can come into my head. Sometimes there feels like there is some control and other times, none at all.

No it’s impossible to prevent a thought from appearing.

Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

When looking it seems that thoughts can come in sequence. Something initiated by a sensation. For example sensation of hunger, I must eat, visualise what’s in the fridge, think I will do this/that. This seems to be in sequence yes.

Many thanks,
nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

For example if I say think of a black cat the image can come into my head. Sometimes there feels like there is some control and other times, none at all.

"I say think of a black cat" is a thought which has already appeared. Do you see that ?

Are you a thinker of thoughts ?

This is an investigation for you :

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello Warissem,

I’m sorry, I just received your message, I didn’t get an alert on my emails. If it’s ok I will reply tomorrow so I have time to look this evening.

Many thanks

nel

[warissem]

Hi nel

No worry, take your time

Warissem

[nellie]

Hello,

Do you see that ?

Are you a thinker of thoughts ?

Yes I see that the black cat is a thought.

No I am not the thinker of thoughts as they appear randomly but…. Why do I still feel I have some control over them?

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No it can not be known, the height, weight or volume of the body. When I look it’s just sensation with no boundaries. Of course I can say (thought) I can feel my feet and the top of my head but with just sensation there is no way of knowing. Also my little son was lying next to me and there was no boundary between me and him it seemed to be just one, a sensation of energy. Aliveness I guess.
In actual experience as in lying down the body doesn’t have shape or form. Of course if I look in a mirror or look down at my body form can be seen. That image can remain in my head so I can recall it to say what shape/ form height I have but again all just thought.

[warissem]

Hi nel

Good observations. You said :

No I am not the thinker of thoughts as they appear randomly but…. Why do I still feel I have some control over them?

How does this control on thoughts operate ? How do YOU intervene in the process ?

Kind regards

Warissem