Clear vision

[Lilpil]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I can see I know this, when I look, but it seems to be constantly forgotten in my life so I wonder if I only se this intelectlee but not for real. As I write this I cry. Nobody decied to cry. Crying happend and feeling sad happened.

What are you looking for at LU?
Clarity. I have been seeking many places for at least 13 -14 years. I followed conversation on LU for about 10 years ago and that changed something. Something happened in my system. I started shaking devastatingly but I felt safe at the same time. I really don´t know if it had to do with the reading of your conversations. But it felt like it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I have bin all over the place on the internet watching youtube videos. Now it is mostly Tony Parsons. I have never had anybody to talk to about this, maybe that is what I am looking for? It somehow feels like being separated, which it is not supposed to .

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Whell I am not sure that I would call it spiritual now. But I have been in Christian prayers group at first. But I dit not like it dit not fit in I found it dishonest somehow. After that I read Eckhart Tolle that was an opening to me. Then one thing lead to another listening to lot of people. Gangaji, Mooji, Robert Spira and lots of others and now Tony Parsons. Never practised yoga or inquiry of any kind. Exept looking in to my body an questioning my thougts.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Vivien]

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.

This is going to be your inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realization, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards investigating that what it is that you mistake for a self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
Also, post daily, or at least every other day. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

As I write this I cry. Nobody decied to cry. Crying happend and feeling sad happened.

Is this what you actually seen experienitially in the very moment when crying happened, or rather these were thoughts you were thinking as a learned knowledge?

Vivien

[Lilpil]

Can we agree on these?
Yes I agree
Hallo! Thank you for be willing to guide me :) I want to start right now but I am having trouble finding where I can see how to do this, that is how to do the framing and so. I saw instruction somewhere but cant find it now. Or maybe it is ok like this?

[Lilpil]

Is this what you actually seen experienitially in the very moment when crying happened, or rather these were thoughts you were thinking as a learned knowledge?

That is what was felt but now it is a while since It happened I can not go back therefore not be quite sure.

[Vivien]

Hi Lilpil,

What name would you like me to call you?

Here is the link to a video how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Please spend a whole day looking at again again repeatedly many times during the day:

What Is it you believe yourself to be in your daily life?

Whenever you say or think ‘I’ in your everyday life, what is it you refer to with the word ‘I’?

Note:
I'm going to write all my questions in blue. Every blue question will be a pointer for you where to look. Please make sure that you investigate ALL the questions thoroughly in your own experience, without trying to come up with an answer from intellectual understanding, like something you've heard or read, or learned by someone else. This is something you need to see, not just understand.

So please make sure that you deeply investigate all blue questions, and you reply to them one-by-one (unless I group them into blocks).

Try to avoid replying quickly... since that would be just the mind answering with the same old beliefs or learned knowledge. Rather with each post, spend a whole day investigating it again and again, before replying. I hope you are OK with this. This deep investigation could help immensely.

Vivien

[Lilpil]

What name would you like me to call you?

Lilpil is fine

[Lilpil]

What Is it you believe yourself to be in your daily life?

I dont believe my selve to be anything there is my body typing on the cp and there is thinking; am I doing this wright?, should I be dooing this all day?, and there is tension in the body, there is shaking a little bit, nervousness ,breething consciously, trying to calm that works . The "I" makes tension in my neck and this tension comes whenever there is conflict or decisions to make so I is in control except when I am alone hahaha. So I know there is no I,But how can it be in control if it does not excist ? That I can se clearly but it is in control. That is suffering.I am impulsive but lately It has happened that I have been stopping and waiting and allowing life to happen more on it itself and it does wondrous. This is a story Iknow. There are hands writing on the cp looking through the eyes, fatigue in buttocks,hearing sounds from distance, there is stillness in every thing around me everi thing is so so still. furniture is still and like thei have no substance, this is like death so much stillness all around me, so quiet ..it's like I'm alone in the world watching without giving a name, it's like everything is dead without sorrow without feelings ... .nothing matters.

[Lilpil]

Whenever you say or think ‘I’ in your everyday life, what is it you refer to with the word ‘I’?

(As you can probably se my english is not so good so I have to youse google translate a lot for the spelling I hope this will be good enough.) My language is icelandic.)
I am refering to this persona, this ownership of everything that is included that is conditioned from everything that has happened to this persona sins born and until this day. Maybe that is why I feel cotraction in the back of my neck when I say I.

[Vivien]

Hi Lilpil,

(As you can probably se my english is not so good so I have to youse google translate a lot for the spelling I hope this will be good enough.) My language is icelandic.)

No problem, I am not a native speaker either, just as many other people on this forum :)

I am refering to this persona, this ownership of everything that is included that is conditioned from everything that has happened to this persona sins born and until this day.

OK. Now let’s look at this persona.

Look at it directly. WHERE is this persona exactly? Where is it located?

How big it is?

What is this persona made of?

Vivien

[Lilpil]

[/quote]Look at it directly. WHERE is this persona exactly? Where is it located?

I can not find it anywhere located.

[Vivien]

Please look more. Spend a whole day looking again and again 30-50 times each day, before replying. Even when the answer seems to be pretty clear, please look more. It's all about repetition. By repeatedly looking and seeing and not finding is what what is undoing the belief. All right?

At the end of the day, please write again what you've discovered. :)

V

[Lilpil]

Look at it directly. WHERE is this persona exactly? Where is it located?

I have been looking all day, but maybe more thinking, I am not sure but both at the same time, it is hard to put it in words I have been sensing thinking like contraction but not always, and kind of let go and than been relaxed, in and out. There is a very strong habit going on, the persona is not located anywhere it seems like there is a story and thinking sticking to the I, it is like glued with very strong glue. There is I, and there is a story, and the story sticks to the I that does not exist.And that is what makes the persona. The I is only a letter. ! It is only for using in conversation, like a chair is not a chair that is only what it is called, but the difference is that the chair has a substance, but the I does not. As I am writing this it feels like I am being winded like a rag very harsly.

[Lilpil]

How big it is?

It feels very very big when believed.
But it does not exist so it has no size.When that is realised it feels like relaxation in the body.

[Lilpil]

What is this persona made of?

The belief that there is something
in the body that is in control of life.
Thoughts feelings sensations, glued to the letter I.

[Vivien]

Hi Lilpil,

There is a very strong habit going on, the persona is not located anywhere it seems like there is a story and thinking sticking to the I, it is like glued with very strong glue. There is I, and there is a story, and the story sticks to the I that does not exist.

How do you know that the I that the story is sticking to doesn’t exist?

Is this something you’ve learned?

Or is this something you experientially see?
If you see it, please describe HOW you see that the I doesn’t exists.

Also, consider this…

What is your experience of actual? And how do you know what is conceptual?

Again, please spend a whole day repeatedly looking at these questions. Don’t rush. Be thorough.

Vivien