Away Ken

[AwayKen127]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I have read that self, time, space, agency, subject-object duality are all stories made of thought. None can be found in direct experience. Without the illusion of self, there is only direct experience of the senses prior to any concepts and labels, and their reflections, which are thoughts. The reflections can be seen to be unreal.

What are you looking for at LU?
Awakening. Living authentically and freely. Seeing through stories that cause suffering. Dismantling patterns of fixation that are harmful to me and others. Being able to relate to others without putting on them expectations or demands. Being sufficient to myself in all circumstances.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I want to be able to see through cognitive distortions and live in unbound consciousness. By interacting with a guide, I hope to accelerate the process, which I feel I have started but have a long way yet to go.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have meditated for years. I have become much more interested in awakening after finding Simply Always Awake on YouTube and reading Angelo Dilullo's book. I now beiieve awakening is possible for me. I have had some glimpses in meditation only recently which reveal a different way to experience reality than I had known.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Anastacia42]

Hi & Happy New Year!

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


I have had some glimpses in meditation only recently which reveal a different way to experience reality than I had known.


How did it feel to experience differently?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you?

What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

I'm wondering if you've seen the reply?

Thanks,

[AwayKen127]

Hi Stacy,
I'm sorry I didn't see your post until today, when a message came to my email inbox.

How will life change?

I will live in Presence, in intimate contact with perceptions, unburdened of the constant need to protect and provide for my ego. Social anxiety will be minimal, and I will be more present with others. I will feel more connection and not feel defensive. This will lead to a closer connection with others who relate on this level, and possibly a loss of connection with those who don’t.

How will you change?

I will experience freedom and loss of anxiety. I will feel deeply connected to others and to my environment. I will not be defensive. I will relax into life. I will reach toward my human potential.

What will be different?

I would like to think that I will remain passionate about music and physics, but I realize that that could change. My mind will be quieter and more effective. I will appreciate every moment more.

What is missing?

I lack a deep sense of security. I fear being abandoned. I fear being helpless. Deep peace is missing. Deep acceptance of what is is missing.


I have had some glimpses in meditation only recently which reveal a different way to experience reality than I had known.

How did it feel to experience differently?

Peaceful. Thrilling. Beautiful. Alive.

Please call me Jeff. I’m in Pacific Standard Time.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeff!

I am sorry it took so long to discover that you had not been subscribed to getting emails on your thread by the admin who set up your thread. But we found out and fixed it. Thank you for waiting

How did it feel to experience differently?
Peaceful. Thrilling. Beautiful. Alive.

Yes! That's it!

What comes up when is read that there is no self, never has been, and never will be?


Loving,

[AwayKen127]

What comes up when is read that there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

I'm in good health, just so there is no misunderstanding. I wrote this poem two weeks ago:

GRACES AND HEROES

Jeff is dying.
Jeff loves Jeff but cannot stop the dying.
A songwriter, Rebecca, whose songs are loved by Jeff, sang,
“You loved her oh so much/ But you could not stop the dying”.
Now Jeff knows what Rebecca meant.

Jeff knows Jeff’s struggles and suffering,
Also Jeff’s joys and triumphs.
Jeff knows that Jeff did his best, with honour,
To live his life by his lights,
To be true to himself,
And to make the world a better place.
The world was a better place for having Jeff in it
And will be a better place without him when he is gone.
It could not be otherwise.

Jeff is crying
Tears of sadness
Tears of gratitude
Tears of relief as he prepares to lay down his burden.
Goodbye, Jeff.

Even now, at this very moment,
Graces and Heroes are journeying to his gravesite
Where they will watch over him
Eternally.

Here: Victoria, B.C., Canada
Now: Wednesday, January 26, 2022, 2:44 PM PST

So sadness came up when I thought about living without Jeff. But I am no longer sad or apprehensive. I understand that I have no self and never had or will have a self, but I still have the feeling of being a self, looking out through my eyes. There is a center to my perception, a point of view. I intuit that it might be possible to let that drop.

[Anastacia42]

Hi Jeff.

That's a precious story-poem.

My job here is to help you to SEE past stories, even if they make good poems. So, please understand when I tell you that sadness is a Sensation. a Direct Experience, with a label, a story, called "sadness" today is made up.

So, a couple more bits of groundwork & at some point I may offer you a pointer on death. Deal?

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

Typo... I do this on my cell phone, mostly.

story, called "sadness" today is made up.

THAT ... not today

[AwayKen127]

The distinction between direct experience and thought content/story is quite clear to me. I'll try again, without the poem:

What comes up when is read that there is no self, never has been, and never will be?

In the moment, a thought arises, which is a reflection of the sound of spoken words. The content of the thought is, "I understand the truth of the statement, but I still feel like a self". No feelings in the body arise.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

Good. We will hope to get you more attuned to Sensations of the body but right now let's look at this:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above, in that order - what you're noticing & then what is the DE?

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

You're also not trying to note one of each sense. Just whatever is there. You might See 3 things. Hear 2 things, Feel/Sense 5 body Sensations.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[AwayKen127]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Feeling an itch, simply = sensation
Feeling an itch, simply = sensation
Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Feeling an itch, simply = sensation
Hearing and feeling a yawn, simply = sound and sensation
Hearing and feeling scratching an arm, simply = sound and sensation
Hearing the nada, simply = sound
Hearing and feeling my gut gurgle, simply = sound and sensation
Tasting coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the computer fan, simply = sound

[AwayKen127]

I notice that actions are not described in this format. For example, I can't say I'm turning on the tap. Instead, I'm saying that I feel the handle of the tap, simply = sensation. I hear the water running, simply = sound. Is that right?

[Anastacia42]

Yes, actions are handled in a different type of pointer, like this one:

here's a pointer to look at "control. "

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Loving,

[AwayKen127]

Good morning, Stacy,

I kept with the sense-labeling exercise yesterday and found that I was much less in discursive thought than usual.

Here are my answers to the Palm Flipping Exercise:

How is the movement controlled?

It's spontaneous. No control or controller.

Does a thought control it?

No. A thought arises: "Flip". The hand will flip or not flip.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No controller, just thoughts and movements arising.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

There is no decision. I notice thoughts and movements arising.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

There was no choice! This question was very surprising, since it revealed the absence of choice so clearly.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

No.

[Anastacia42]

Good, Ken.

That is all correct. Yes, it can be quite surprising.

How does it FEEL to SEE this?

Much love,