Finding Freedom

[Asterisk1]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The illusory self or the ego is a projection in the mind - it is who we think we are rather than who we actually are - it is awareness identified with thoughts etc - when you look from a place of subjectivity within yourself you cannot find any tangible evidence that the personal "I" exists yet there is still a witnessing presence

What are you looking for at LU?
I have been practicing witnessing " I AM" & self inquiry meditation for 2 years & I am committed - I want to be part of a community where I can learn from other like minded people to realise freedom from my identified mind

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
It would be great if I can bounce ideas off an experienced guide who has "walked the path less path " to direct me - I have felt I have had spiritual breakthroughs only for the identified ego mind to come roaring back in the middle of the night & take back control with worries & concerns - at these times I have felt being in a mental prison - yet there are times I have felt limitless freedom - I would like a guide to help me keep focused

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am 56 years old - since my early 20's I have always done TM ,visualisation for goals & relaxation techniques - the last 2 years after reading " The Power of Now" and searching on YouTube I have been practicing Witnessing , I AM meditation and Self Inquiry " Who Am I ?"

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Harry]

Hello,

My name is Harry and I would be happy to guide you. Thank you for reaching out and for sharing the experiences you’ve had on your spiritual path thus far.

It sounds like you have had a number of glimpses of clear seeing. However, you mentioned the recurring presence of ego, worries and concerns, so that is what we predominantly shall address: almost exclusively referring to your actual experience.


A daily correspondence is best for this purpose, so please let me know if this is possible for you. Occasionally missing days if necessary is no problem, but if you could let me know in advance that would be great.


If you haven't already read the disclaimer, have a look and let me know when you’ve read it please.
http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/



Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not ...” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:
http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Guidelines:

2. Please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry, there is no one here to judge you.
3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading, etc. should be put aside for the remainder of this investigation. Effort and attention should be directed into seeing this reality, as it is.

Unfortunately, technology can occasionally glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Saving a copy of what you have done will save time in the long run!


Thank you for what you have already shared about your expectations. To clarify this further for both of us, please answer the 4 following questions in your own words:

1. How will life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?


Throughout this exploration, please answer all the questions that I have written in blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660



What name would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Best of luck!

Harry

[Harry]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Sorry the quote function link didn’t work before, here it is again!

All the best

[Asterisk1]

Thanks for replying Harry - I am currently on holiday in Spain so if that is ok with you I would like to start our correspondence next week - I am looking forward to it - in the interim I will read through the pre requirements of how to have meaningful conversations - I consider myself a beginner & I have downloaded the Enlightening Quotes App and working through some of the questions - I get the idea of No Self conceptually - in fact as u have stated I have had glimpses of just Being Alive & in the moment with No Self - i have days in which my mind is quiet & i feel so spacious - however my old beliefs are strong and often I get taken over by "Mind Attacks" which have such a strong pull - I feel defenceless sometimes - even though I know I am not my thoughts on some occasions i am completely identified with the illusion again - these obviously subside & i carry on with my practices - I have learnt a lot but feel I am only at the tip of the iceberg - I will reply to your questions next Monday - thank you Harry

[Harry]

No worries - thanks for letting me know!
Enjoy your holiday

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry - back from Holidays now - i just thought i would let you know a little but about me & my schedule to manage expectations of correspondence - i have a very busy job 5 days a week - 2 days are in the office & because i have to travel 50 miles there & back it maybe that on those days i am unable to respond as i am literally out all day - currently this is Wed & Thurs each week but after Xmas will probably change to Tues & Thurs - i have read & agree to the disclaimer – I like in the UK

In answer to you initial questions - here they are


1. How will life change? I am searching for Inner Peace & Freedom from my Identified Mind – I intuitively believe that what I have read & practiced over the last couple of years can work on a more permanent basis because I have experienced a detached empty peace on many, many occasions sometimes even for days at a time – I am not niave enough to believe that problems will cease – however most of my problems are manufactured or at least increased in my own mind – I would like to learn the tools in how to deal with this

2. How will you change? I have no interest in changing “me” – I am searching for truth – since using Witnessing Meditation for the last 2 years I have become quieter at times and even losing some interest in pleasurable activities like listening to rock music – however that is a by product

3. What will be different? My perception of Life & my ability to deal with difficult situations – I know I am not my thoughts – I have watched & witnessed them thousands of times – yet even though I know this , after periods of relative peace they seem to come back again & again with such force that they sweep me away – I have a few difficult situations in my life which I am dealing with - my identified mind blows these life situations totally out of all proportion which creates anxiety for me that I find difficult to remain detached from

4. What is missing? I have been relatively successful & have a good career – I have a loving partner & a great family – however underneath all of this I am still not fulfilled – there is nagging feeling inside that there is something more to life – when I have had glimspes of “what could be” I have felt that Peace that I am longing for.

[Harry]

Hello,

I hope your holiday went well. Thank you for sharing that information about your work situation. I suggest that on the days where you are unable to reply, you continue the practice we covered on previous days. Continuity of daily practice creates the best opportunity for seeing.

I have watched & witnessed them thousands of times – yet even though I know this, after periods of relative peace they seem to come back again & again with such force that they sweep me away

Even after the absence of self has been seen or glimpsed, being ‘swept away’ is a very common experience. However, it is important to clarify that nothing is really lost here, despite how it seems. Actually, it is the opposite, there are additional unquestioned stories and beliefs contained within experience.

When these arise, question and investigate them, then seeing will be revealed once again. Particularly, watch out for expectations about some kind of permanent, empty, detached, state. Such expectations will seem to veil ‘seeing’.

my identified mind blows these life situations totally out of all proportion which creates anxiety for me that I find difficult to remain detached from

Who is it, in your experience, that detaches them self from their anxiety? Is there a ‘detacher’ to be found?


Do you have any questions about the quote function? If not, please use it for next time. Here is the video link explaining how to use it:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ


You can preview your responses too by pressing the button next to where you hit submit.




Also, to quote my previous post,

‘what name would you like me to call you?’

Lastly, here is a final question for you…



What comes up in your experience upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been & never will be?



Hope you enjoy,

Harry

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

Hope you are fine & well - please see my responses

When these arise, question and investigate them, then seeing will be revealed once again. Particularly, watch out for expectations about some kind of permanent, empty, detached, state. Such expectations will seem to veil ‘seeing’

Do you recommend any specific questions for investigation of mind stories ? I usually ask Is there a seperate person / reality here ? Who is this story about ? Where is this person located ? Am i a thought ? idea ? concept? belief? If not - then Who/ What Am I ? Who is the witness to all of this ?

Who is it, in your experience, that detaches them self from their anxiety? Is there a ‘detacher’ to be found?

No there is no detacher to be found - there is No Object who is witnessing all of this - but there is a definite feeling - i know i exist , i know i am experiencing , i have knowledge , intelligence - it feels like i am floating in space with no body if that makes sense ? thoughts come in every few seconds & i can easily watch them & question them - if my mind is quietish i can ignore thoughts & easliy rest like this for hours - i have started waking up in the middle of the night & i instantly go into witnessing - no effort on my behalf - this is not a practice for me or a chore - however whether i am detached or not depends on the strength of the mind story - when mind is relatively quiet - i find it easy to detach & watch my thoughts / feelings - it is obvious at these times that these thoughts are not me - however my issue is when thoughts / feelings come in usually around some troubling life situation & they they have so much energy & force - this is where i can get taken away with the thought / feeling & get identified and then ruminate over anticipated future events that usually don't happen - if you have any tips on how to deal with this they will be gratefully received

what name would you like me to call you?’

Asterisk 1 Please

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

Thanks for the questions you have answered; your follow up questions will be addressed as we go along. A lot of what you’re saying sounds promising, but we will clarify further as we go.

The fourth guideline from my first post suggests that:

4. All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading, etc. should be put aside for the remainder of this investigation. Effort and attention should be directed into seeing this reality, as it is.

This makes it a much easier and less confusing process for us both. So, while you’re here, it’s best to drop the self inquiry and/or witnessing practices for the moment please. I’ll just be giving you specific exercises to practice.

Lastly, please answer this final question from my previous post.

‘What comes up in your experience upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been & never will be?’

Thanks,

Harry

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry

4. All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading, etc. should be put aside for the remainder of this investigation. Effort and attention should be directed into seeing this reality, as it is.

This makes it a much easier and less confusing process for us both. So, while you’re here, it’s best to drop the self inquiry and/or witnessing practices for the moment please. I’ll just be giving you specific exercises to practice.

Point Taken - i will wait for your Guidance & Exercises

‘What comes up in your experience upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been & never will be?’

I have no problem understanding spiritual truths on a conceptual level . I intuitively know its the truth in most cases and this sentence makes sense to me . I now discriminate between myself & my mind . So even though "I" can see the truth in this sentence, my mind carries on regardless, ignores the fact & acts out that there is indeed a seperate self & a seperate person with all its associated ups & downs . The belief there in a seperate self in me is a strong one which i suppose is the case for most people & that is the issue which i am hoping you are going to help me with . Like i have stated previously i have had glimpses of No Self but my mind with its belief of a seperate self does not take long to re-establish itself. Hope this makes sense .

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

The belief there in a seperate self in me is a strong one which i suppose is the case for most people & that is the issue which i am hoping you are going to help me with.

Yes, that’s right, it is a strong belief for many. As you already mentioned the conceptual level, let’s get straight into direct experience.


This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks

There is a big difference between understanding conceptually that there is nothing to give up, and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now, you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, remembering back to this morning when you put your socks on; you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present, moment-to-moment experience.



Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing (colour)
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (thoughts themselves, but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this, or if you would like any further clarification.



All the best,

Harry

[Asterisk1]

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that
We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present, moment-to-moment experience.
Direct or Actual Experience is
Seeing (colour)
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (thoughts themselves, but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this, or if you would like any further clarification.

Hi Harry - yes i am really clear - just a couple of questions : seeing , hearing , tasting , smelling are obvious - with feelings i think you are referring to the actual sensations that you feel in the body when an emotion arises such as a tingling sensation or a racing heartbeat rather than labelling this as say fear or worry or whatever - is that correct ? And thoughts Arising - I am assuming you are referring to Seeing Thoughts from the point of the Witnessing Awareness which i do anyway - is that correct ?

[Harry]

Hi Asterisk 1,

with feelings i think you are referring to the actual sensations that you feel in the body when an emotion arises such as a tingling sensation or a racing heartbeat rather than labelling this as say fear or worry or whatever - is that correct ?

Yes, that’s on the right track. Feeling in this case just refers to raw sensations, i.e. tingling, temperature, pressure, tension, etc. You are correct to differentiate the label from the sensation itself, which is ultimately indescribable.

And thoughts Arising - I am assuming you are referring to Seeing Thoughts from the point of the Witnessing Awareness which i do anyway - is that correct ?

The only point of view we will be referring to here is that of your current experience. Perhaps this is merely an ambiguity of language, but just to clarify: I am referring to the direct experience of thoughts as thoughts, rather than the apparent experience of what the thoughts are about or what they refer to. Thoughts usually are made of words or images. So for example, if you visualise a carrot, you are experiencing thought, not a ‘carrot’. There’s no substance to the ‘carrot’ other than thought.



Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities


Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can.
Please label daily activities into their respective categories of direct experience (DE), which are colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.


So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

• Seeing a cup, simply= colour

• Smelling coffee, simply = smell

• Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation

• Tasting the coffee, simply = taste

• Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound

• Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into whichever of these DE categories are applicable to your current experience (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go. To clarify, the purpose of this exercise is not to provide examples of each DE, but to label your experience as it is currently appearing. You may or may not end up with a list of each DE, unlike this example.



Does this make sense?



Best wishes,

Harry

[Asterisk1]

Hi Harry - yes I think I have it - so I label activities - but just to be clear - by labelling do you mean I actually say to myself the categories as I experience them for example taste or thought? Like nothing?

[Asterisk1]

Sorry Harry - I meant to say ' Like Noting '