Searching for the end of the search

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stephanp
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Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:47 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there isn't a "self" living somewhere inside my brain experiencing but only the act of experiencing itself. All this sense of self/ego/person is just a story created by simple pavlovian conditioning and perhaps that's what makes it so resilient. But it must go.

What are you looking for at LU?
I have experienced this no-self state and I have been chasing it ever since but somehow I just can't get to it again. And I know it is everything they say it is and more and I'm starting going mad searching for it. What I'm looking for is help in getting to that state again and stay there.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I don't know. Perhaps a hint I haven't gotten before, a trick that I fall for and break the chain in the process. Or a different approach that can cut through whatever is holding me back. I think this is the only thing I haven't tried yet.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I tried everything I could.
I stumbled upon the no-self experience by mistake. In retrospect it was a "who am I" inquiry before I even heard of Ramana Maharshi.
Then tried mushrooms and DMT looking for a fast track to that state but it was pointless. At that point I had already gotten the message and those experiences were filled with too much garbage.
Meditation. Mindfulness and TM mostly.
45 Days to Awakening Challenge (Dr. Jeffery Martin)
Fred Davis
Inquiry
Prayer
WimHoff
150mph on a motorcycle

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:28 pm

Hi stephanp,
Welcome to the LU forum.
Thanks for waiting.
I read your intro and this story is very familiar to me.
My name is Lubo and I can join to you in this journey, if you are OK ?
There are some believes which are an obstacle to see trough illusion, but no worries this is very common
Let see some of them:
I have experienced this no-self state
Do you really believe that the truth is state?
inside my brain
What if there is no brain and no owner of nothing?
Is there an owner of Santa? My Santa? Is there Santa at all?
I'm starting going mad searching for it.
Wow, it seems very intensive process.
Can you see gently who or what are you without searching? Is there someone behind this?

Chears
Lubo

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:59 pm

Hi Lubo

Thank you very much for your willingness to help! I appreciate it very much.
Do you really believe that the truth is state?
I think I call it a "state" because it makes it easier. If I think more about it, it is more of a loss of "state". It is a process of subtraction; something drops for that to be experienced.
What if there is no brain and no owner of nothing?
Is there an owner of Santa? My Santa? Is there Santa at all?
I don't know... At the same time it feels that there is not knowing without the brain and the knowing with the brain is just an illusion.
Can you see gently who or what are you without searching? Is there someone behind this?
I think this is the part that gets me the most confused in this searching for non-duality.
If I search for something that isn't there, I'll search forever convinced that I didn't find it because I didn't search well enough and I need better or different effort.
If I search for something that is there, I'd need to know what it is so I know what to search for and recognize it once found.
So this "me"... if it doesn't exist, how do I know when to stop searching? If the real me is something different than what I think it is, how do I go about finding it?

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:55 am

If I do this:

1. Find what is the absolute most personal to me. Like what I feel when I say "I". That sense of being. The closest of close.
2. Inquire into that. Look at it, observer it.
3. Knowing that I can observe it, it means I'm not actually that. Since I can see it.
4. That sense of being has not got to drop and re-acknowledged and internalized as something new.
5. The identification is now with the rest, the global, which includes that limited sense of me, the closest of close.
6. Done seeking. Drops mike. Wishes everybody a good life.

Is that at least pointing in the right direction or should I pick up prayer again?

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:06 am

Hi stephanp,
Thank you very much for your willingness to help! I appreciate it very much.
You are more than welcome .
What if there is no brain and no owner of nothing?
Is there an owner of Santa? My Santa? Is there Santa at all?
I don't know... At the same time it feels that there is not knowing without the brain and the knowing with the brain is just an illusion.
Wonderful. So what is real? Notice, the real is all this What Is or what thoughts says?

Is that at least pointing in the right direction or should I pick up prayer again?
Ahaha, nice sense of humor thanks for this :)
Yes, this is the right direction, there is no need to pray, but rather to look at what and where the questions point tо.
Love
lubo

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:04 pm

Hi stephanp ,
Are you still with me?

lubo

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Hi Lubo

I am. But I'm stuck. If that is the right direction, then I don't know how or where I'm stuck.

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Sun Oct 10, 2021 9:45 pm

Nice.
But I'm stuck. If that is the right direction, then I don't know how or where I'm stuck.
That's why I'm here. You are not alone in this anymore.
So, where are you, what are you?

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:18 pm

So, where are you, what are you?
I don't know. It is some sort of feeling. The more I inquire into it, it becomes even more physical - like a claw in the chest or a knot in the throat. Sometimes a pressure in the gut. Very bizarre.
If that "me" does not exist, I don't know how I would be certain of it. I keep searching thinking I need to do better at it.

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:44 pm

Ok. Ill give you a clue.
What if this separate I is just a belief?
What must be seen then?

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:43 pm

Let's say I forget everything I know about non-duality, correct or wrong, and just start over.

So there are two "I" being discussed.
The illusory "I", the one we try to realize that it doesn't exist.
The real "I", that we are trying to find.

There seem to be two "I":
the I with the 6 senses - sight, hear, touch, smell, taste, thinking.
the I with the life story - memory, experiences, hopes, fears, etc.

Which one do we inquire into and what puts an end to that search? Is it finding it as being real or illusory?

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:26 pm

Hi Stephan,
Let's say I forget everything I know about non-duality, correct or wrong, and just start over.
Wonderful.
So there are two "I" being discussed.
OK, this is further investigation but let's see what will come
Notice there are two I being discussed or there is an experience named Two I being discussed ?
The illusory "I", the one we try to realize that it doesn't exist.

Hahah yes :) But is it possible to the I to find that there is no I?
Something that does not exist to find this?
The real "I", that we are trying to find.
No, we a trying to find what is real, what is here and to find that there is only what is but no imaginary I.
There seem to be two "I":
Really :) we are investigate that there is no I, but now they are two :)
Ok, Let's see
the I with the 6 senses - sight, hear, touch, smell, taste, thinking.
the I with the life story - memory, experiences, hopes, fears, etc.
What if :
the I with the 6 senses = the I with the life story = Idea that there is an I
and
sight, hear, touch, smell, taste, thinking.= memory, experiences, hopes, fears, etc. = experience= no I here just an experience
?

Love
lubo

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stephanp
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby stephanp » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:10 pm

Well, then I'm stuck again.

If "I" is just an experience then there is nothing to be found. And yet the search doesn't stop.

I really, really, really wish I've never heard of this non-duality crap.

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Lubo
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Re: Searching for the end of the search

Postby Lubo » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:34 am

Hi Stephan,
Yes, this frustration is so honest.
Not this, but this... Yes, real crap, but nothing to do, the game goes on :)

Let's continue play but more easily, soft and playful.
Let's also forget others for a while.
And look here:
If "I" is just an experience then there is nothing to be found.
Here the I and the experience are one and the same.
But exactly here is the differentiation.
I = idea that there is an I
experience = what reality looks like
I = Santa Claus
experience = 25th December
So, be very gentle with this and notice
What is real and what is just an Idea?

Much love to you
lubo


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