Here we go

[Chandra4Now]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is no solid, stable, "thing" independent of causes and conditions.

What are you looking for at LU?
Working thru the fetters in a systematic way? Periods of experiencing nonduality - "In hearing, only the heard; in seeing, only the seen...". Freedom from desire and ill will, the voice in the head - narrative, commenting, like/dislike...

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Guidance, questions, feedback, suggestions. Relatively timely back and forth interactions would be preferred. I'd like to be understood for where I'm at in the process, thoroughly questioned without being "let go" too soon.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Meditating on and off since 1971. Only a little direct inquiry or working with the fetters.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[warissem]

Hi

I would like to accompany you to see through the illusion of a separate self. There are rules to be respected during our dialog.

There is a need for commitment : you come once a day into this forum to give your answers or to check if there are questions from me.

Let aside all books, videos, audios, about spirituality, non duality, ...

Be honest with yourself when you give answers to questions : you answer from a solid ground which is the truth, that is after having seen it in direct experience. Direct experience is seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling, touching (sensations).

I read you introduction post and it seems that you are not far from seeing the truth.

If you agree , let me know to begin the dialog.

Best wishes

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

Thank you. Let's begin.

[warissem]

Hi

All right. Please read the disclaimer text and learn how to use the quote function.

Would you speak about your expectations. What do you expect to happen after having seen through the illusion of a separate self ?

What changes do you expect in your life when you will see that there is no you, no separate self ?

Thank you

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

First, I read the disclaimers but don't know where quotes information is. Can you point me to it?

"Would you speak about your expectations. What do you expect to happen after having seen through the illusion of a separate self ?"

I expect to "travel lighter - less time spent in mental chatter and narration, past & future, quieter mind overall. Experiences of flow, non-doership, spontaneity, the separation between so-called out.-there and in-here lessened, greater acceptance of things as they are.

"What changes do you expect in your life when you will see that there is no you, no separate self ?"

Lessened reactivity, mental/ emotional agitation; more harmonious relationship with my wife and others; seeing the sameness between myself and others; taking things less personally; experiencing so-called Me more as part of the overall flow of all phenomenon.

[warissem]

Hi

About the quote function :viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I expect to "travel lighter - less time spent in mental chatter and narration, past & future, quieter mind overall. Experiences of flow, non-doership, spontaneity, the separation between so-called out.-there and in-here lessened, greater acceptance of things as they are.

Lessened reactivity, mental/ emotional agitation; more harmonious relationship with my wife and others; seeing the sameness between myself and others; taking things less personally; experiencing so-called Me more as part of the overall flow of all phenomenon.

At the end of this dialog, it could be less mental chatter but there is not the end of the thoughts about a me, a separate self. It depends on the interest you give to this dialog and the honesty to do the exercises which will be given to you.

There is an exercise about direct experience :
When I ask this question : what is the color of the sky in there ?

You can give an answer by guessing it or
You open the window, look at the sky and give the answer. This last answer is given through direct experience.

Direct experience is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. Can you give examples about direct experience. An example : you travel in front of a map or travel through the territory (direct experience).

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

Hi

About the quote function :viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

I expect to "travel lighter - less time spent in mental chatter and narration, past & future, quieter mind overall. Experiences of flow, non-doership, spontaneity, the separation between so-called out.-there and in-here lessened, greater acceptance of things as they are.

Lessened reactivity, mental/ emotional agitation; more harmonious relationship with my wife and others; seeing the sameness between myself and others; taking things less personally; experiencing so-called Me more as part of the overall flow of all phenomenon.

At the end of this dialog, it could be less mental chatter but there is not the end of the thoughts about a me, a separate self. It depends on the interest you give to this dialog and the honesty to do the exercises which will be given to you.

There is an exercise about direct experience :
When I ask this question : what is the color of the sky in there ?

You can give an answer by guessing it or
You open the window, look at the sky and give the answer. This last answer is given through direct experience.

Direct experience is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. Can you give examples about direct experience. An example : you travel in front of a map or travel through the territory (direct experience).

Warissem

There is contraction in the face, brow, aching in lower back, pressure on buttocks.
There are many images in the filed of awareness - keyboard, letters and number, calendar book, pens...
There are faint sounds from traffic outside.
A taste of fruit beverage in the mouth,
Very faint aroma of the beverage.

[warissem]

Hi

About the quote function : you select only my questions.

I see that you understand what is direct experience.

There is an exercise for you : sit down comfortably, take a sheet of paper and a pen. Divide the sheet in two columns

Column A and column B.

Close your eyes for about 5 minutes and observe your thoughts. Then write down all thoughts about me, I, personal thoughts in column A and all other thoughts in column B. Don't write back here what is on the sheet, you just answer these questions :

Is there a you arising thoughts ?

From where are thoughts arising ? Where are they going ?

Do you know what is the next thought ?

Can you stop a thought from arising ?

Can a thought see ?

Can a thought think ?

Good luck

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

Hi

About the quote function : you select only my questions.

I see that you understand what is direct experience.

There is an exercise for you : sit down comfortably, take a sheet of paper and a pen. Divide the sheet in two columns

Column A and column B.

Close your eyes for about 5 minutes and observe your thoughts. Then write down all thoughts about me, I, personal thoughts in column A and all other thoughts in column B. Don't write back here what is on the sheet, you just answer these questions :

Is there a you arising thoughts ?
No

From where are thoughts arising ? Where are they going ?
Can't find any so-called place

Do you know what is the next thought ?
Can't find any so-called place

Can you stop a thought from arising ?
Hmm, I can with meditative technique, see them arise and pass very quickly. But I can not stop.

Can a thought see ?
Of course not.

Can a thought think ?
No

Good luck

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

Sorry,

Do you know what is the next thought ?
No

[warissem]

Hi

About the quote function : you select my question then you push the "quote" icon. After doing that, you write your answer without a quote.

About the exercise, you have made good observations. Now I suggest for you another exercise :

Sit down or lay down comfortably, close your eyes for about ten minutes, observe what is going on in the body, then answer these questions :

Eyes closed, without going to thoughts or what you know, what is a body ? Answer through direct experience.

Does this called body has a tall, a weight, a density ? in your experience.

Is there a separation between the chair (or the sofa) and the body ?

Is there a separation between the clothes and the body ?

Thank you

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

I selected 4 lines of questions then clicked the quotation marks at the top right of page. But in the reply window your whole text seems to be included between the opening and closing Quote commands. I cut out all but your questions between the two.
In that remaining text I inserted my answers after the questions.
Eyes closed, without going to thoughts or what you know, what is a body ? Answer through direct experience.
Body is mainly a field or area of sensations, some at the surface and others inside. Some are comfortable, others not. Some more prominent, others almost no sensation.

All the following are concepts, constructs. But certain sensations (or lack of) are interpreted in these ways:

Does this called body has a tall, a weight, a density ? in your experience.
Height? - The sensations seem to occupy a certain amount of space.
Weight? - Comes from some areas having a stronger feeling of pressure by contact with other objects - e.g. at the buttocks while sitting.
Density? - Seems to be harder/softer, heavier/lighter.

Is there a separation between the chair (or the sofa) and the body ?
Is there a separation between the clothes and the body ?
There seems to be a contact area where one part is felt in sensation and the other is not.

Thank you

[warissem]

Hi

This is how the quote function works :

Select my question and push the quote button. Example :

Eyes closed, without going to thoughts or what you know, what is a body ? Answer through direct experience.

Now I comment your answers

Body is mainly a field or area of sensations, some at the surface and others inside. Some are comfortable, others not. Some more prominent, others almost no sensation.
All the following are concepts, constructs. But certain sensations (or lack of) are interpreted in these ways:

Without going to the memory, is there an inside and an outside of the body ? Can you trace the limits or the shape of what is called a body ?

Height? - The sensations seem to occupy a certain amount of space.

Yes.

Weight? - Comes from some areas having a stronger feeling of pressure by contact with other objects - e.g. at the buttocks while sitting.

Without going to thought, eyes closed, how do you know other objects ? Are they two sensations : one of the object, the other of a butt ? Look.

Density? - Seems to be harder/softer, heavier/lighter.

This answer is a thought story. Direct experience is :seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations.

There seems to be a contact area where one part is felt in sensation and the other is not.

Look again at the question and give an answer through direct experience, don't guess it.

Best wishes

Warissem

[Chandra4Now]

Hi Warissem,

Without going to the memory, is there an inside and an outside of the body ? Can you trace the limits or the shape of what is called a body ?

The edges are not distinct, I could not trace it. There is a field of sensations, but nothing “outside” of that.

Without going to thought, eyes closed, how do you know other objects ? Are they two sensations : one of the object, the other of a butt ? Look.

No, not two, only one “area” of sensations. The rest is mental inference.

This answer is a thought story. Direct experience is :seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensations. Look again at the question and give an answer through direct experience, don't guess it.

Yes, only sensations. Only with thoughts are they experienced as different types – temperature, pressure, etc.

Thank you again!
Fran

[warissem]

Hi Fran

Good. What is arising when you read this : there is no you, no separate self, it has never been, it will never be.

Warissem