Experiencing, this thread is for you.

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Ilona
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Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Wed May 02, 2012 7:24 pm

Hi and thank you for messages.

we can talk here, let's get you to seeing that there is no experiencer :)

please tell a bit about yourself and your journey so far. what is it that you expect from this conversation?
looking forward to your answer.

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Thu May 03, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi Ilona, I appreciate your time, guidance…. & this awesome website. Thank you for such generous gifts of support!

As for my story, though I’ve been searching for awhile, I am not awake. The last couple years, I’ve been exploring non-duality… so have some familiarity with inquiry.

I’ve had my share of “states of mind”/“spiritual experiences” but am beginning to think that more experiences will only get me ‘more experiences’ & not awakening.

Yes Ilona, it would be great to see that there is no experiencer. Besides a fear of death, belief in identification & separation still seem to be running the show here. I also have an active mind which can take ownership of smaller insights/realizations & think it is “maturing.” Any help with these would be appreciated.

What I am expecting from this conversation is to clearly see through this ‘I’ story…. preferably so clearly that the ‘I’ thought can never be believed again. As a beginner, this may be hoping for too much and any ‘seeing’ will be most appreciated!

Sending love & gratitude for this opportunity. :)

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Thu May 03, 2012 10:53 pm

Thank you for answer.
I see you are on the right track and ate ready to move through the gate.

So tell me precisely what comes up, when you let this thought in:

There is no self, no me at all in reality. None as in zero. There is no entity that controls, manages life, all there is is life flowing freely.

Pay attention to feelings, where and what is felt in the body?
Write all that comes up.


Sending love. :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Fri May 04, 2012 6:50 pm

The instructions were to write all that comes up… alot did & I didn’t let my ‘mature mind’ ;) edit or respond to it.

1. Immediate gut response of YIKES!...feeling a little anxious…stomach is tightening. Feeling a little protective of the ‘seeker’ role. Mind thinks it has developed a nice identity here. I’ve gotten use to the longing. It’s familiar… been with me for awhile. [wasn’t expecting this]

2. Currently, “no self” is just another ‘idea/belief’ but not a ‘knowing’ [consciously anyway]. Freedom is more than just a decision to believe one statement of identity over another. I haven’t had any ‘break-through’ so that ‘no-self’ is ‘known’.

3. Jaw feels a little tight…feeling annoyed… I was hoping to go through a whole dismantling process so that at the end, the logical conclusion would be that the ‘I’ thought is an illusion. The process could be trusted to lead to seeing.

4. Feeling a little upset… what will happen to me? I want something to hold onto. Feeling sad. I don’t like death… especially mine.

5. ‘Believing thought’ is still operating. There also is still the impression that the I who talks from this form is a separate existing entity and running the show here.

6. Feeling helpless… don’t know ‘how’ to see through the ‘I’ thought. I’ve tried before to find an ‘entity’ & I can’t. But somehow that has not led to ‘seeing’ for this form. Then there is the thought that I haven’t tried hard enough or done it correctly, etc.

7. Feeling scared & uncomfortable… want to get busy…distracted…

That’s it for now… Sending love, :)

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri May 04, 2012 7:03 pm

Great answer.
Let's keep moving.

Yes, the frustration and fear is often at 'the gateless gate'. It's ok. Let whatever comes up be ok.

Now let's look at the mechanism of fear. Not going into details and content, but the actual mechanics.
Fear is here to protect. It's a servant, a guardian that is doing its job. Can you see that?
All it wants is for you to be safe. It's a built in mechanism. Acknowledge it. Thank it. Ask it to come closer.

Once it comes closer, let it just be here, without trying to escape or avoid it. Notice the sensations in the body. Where is it felt? Jaw? Gut? Feel it fully. Describe the sensations, what is the form, shape of the feeling? Allow it to be here and ask it to come even closer. Thank it. Bow to it. See how perfectly it works. Now look behind it. What is there? Take a peak with curiosity, tell me what you see.

What is this fear protecting?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Fri May 04, 2012 7:34 pm

Yes, I can see that the fear is here to protect.
Body sensations: pelvis tightening, jaw tightening, stomach clenching, feeling contracted.
The form of the fear feeling is energy.
Behind fear is a thought.
The fear is protecting the “I” thought.

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri May 04, 2012 7:45 pm

Good,
So fear is protecting I thought. Can you ask that fear now, does I thoughts need to be protected. And if it says yes, ask it, from what.

What was the answer?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Fri May 04, 2012 8:06 pm

Immediate response was Yes, it does need to be protected.
but then....hmmmm… does a ‘thought’ need to be protected?
‘I’ Thought needs to be protected from ‘un-believing’… because if/when the ‘I’ thought stops being run, it is nowhere to be found.

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri May 04, 2012 8:13 pm

Good work. Now bring that fear back up, look behind it. What is there?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Fri May 04, 2012 8:31 pm

nothing.

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri May 04, 2012 8:34 pm

Ha!
Nothing.

Does nothing needs to be protected? Can nothing be lost?
Take a good look here.
How does it feel to see this?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Fri May 04, 2012 8:55 pm

No, nothing does not need to be protected… & it can’t be lost...
Ilona, I may have to sit with this…

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Fri May 04, 2012 8:57 pm

Good work. Let this sink in.
We'll speak tomorrow.

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby experiencing » Sat May 05, 2012 9:57 pm

Sat & reviewed our conversation as there was not clear seeing here.

When you asked me to ‘bring that fear back up,’ I was able to do it - though the intensity of the feeling was less than the first time.

What was behind the fear? ...nothing …empty space. There was no awareness of an ‘I’ thought at that moment.

Of course, ‘nothing’ does not need to be protected & can’t be lost. The question how does it feel to see this? …left me blank.

So my mind quickly started reviewing in order to ‘see this’… adding that of course, in reality the ‘I’ thought is nothing…

But that answer would have been contrived... that second look showed no “I” thought at all. My honest experience was of nothing… like the space between these words.

May be missing something obvious here... but needed to write it as it was experienced.

Sending love & thanks.

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Re: Experiencing, this thread is for you.

Postby Ilona » Sat May 05, 2012 11:04 pm

Indeed, nothing.. This Is what I wanted you to see. Emptiness, space, void, nothing..
And then we have this- life, everything, this, that springs out of it.

We can proceed further.
Let's examine thoughts. Tell me where they come from, are you in control of thoughts, do you know what the next thought will be before it shows up?
Think of a number from 1 to thousand. Do you know what number pops in before it does, as in do you choose the number? Watch it closely as it happens.

Look at thoughts and see if you can find a thinker.


Lots of love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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