The time has come

[Zoi]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no separate entity inside the body . the self that we think we are is an illusion

What are you looking for at LU?
I have done a lot of inner work the past 2 years and I had a gradual change in perception. I would like to see if this perception can open up more . Maybe some hidden beliefs show up, that are now blocking the view

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I dont expect something from the guided conversation . I know the forum many years but I was always afraid to be expossed to a guide or to the public. There is still some resistance even now so it is something start with!

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Due to some child traumas I have done " deep looking " with the help of Ilona the past 2 years which is what helped me heal the wounds and see the truth. I have read some spiritual books but I do not follow any other practices.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Ronaldo]

Hello and welcome to Liberation Unleashed.
My name is Ron and I'll be happy to guide you through your inquiry if you'd like.

For the duration of this inquiry, please let go of all books, youtube videos and the likes related to enlightenment, spiritual search, personal growth or healing and even reading other threads, it will add confusion.
We are going to be exploring beliefs, and the beauty here is that you don’t need to believe anything I say, quite the contrary, you have to verify everything I point to experimentally.
Curiosity, persistence and honesty are key, please post daily, and if you can't or need more time, just let me know.
Agreed?

I know the forum many years but I was always afraid to be expossed to a guide or to the public. There is still some resistance even now so it is something start with!

Thanks for being honest about it. In this correspondence we are not going to go into traumas or try to resolve deep emotional issues. In fact, all the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas and pains won’t just dissolve once the self is seen through. That is a process that would take much further work to resolve, but exposing the illusion is the beginning of something good.

If at any time you feel uncomfortable or exposed, we can switch to private email correspondence until and if you're ready to switch back.

Yes, the time has come 😃 ready to get to work?

Ron

[Zoi]

Hello Ron
I would love to work with you if you are still available.
Sorry I didn’t respond earlier, I was not ready. I understand what you say about the traumas . I won’t read anything during our work
Looking forward
Olga

[Ronaldo]

Hi Olga,
I'm not guiding at the moment, but I've pinned your thread to the top and hopefully you'll be picked up by another guide soon.
All the best
Ron

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

I'm Luchana and I can assist you exploring no self if that's ok?

Before we start the investigation can you share
What are you looking for precisely?

Also there is an opportunity for a video meeting/guiding in the forum.

If there is an impulse to do some - just message me and we will figure it out the day and time.

Much love,

Luchana

[Zoi]

Hi Luchana
There is a shift in perception and I would like to see if it can deepen. That is what I am looking for.
I agree to have a video meeting together
Love olga

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

thank you for your reply.
Yes, we can have a zoom meeting, sure. I will send you a privite message here in the forum.

There is a shift in perception

Can you say some more about this shift?

How does the shift itself felt?

Much love
Luchana

[Zoi]

Can you say some more about this shift?

How does the shift itself felt?

Life is simple now. No need to accomplish anything, no need to prove anything, no worrying about tomorrow, a sense of completeness .

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

Nice :-)

Can you share what happens in your everyday life, just living the everyday life, does it feel like that I am thinking, I am choosing, I am deciding, I am feeling emotions and sensations, I am doing stuf...etc?


I've sent you a pm here, but for some reason maybe it is not deliverd.

You can message me about the zoom meeting - here:
luchanauzunova@gmail.com
I am in EEST time.

Much love,
Luchana

[Zoi]

Hi luchana
When mind is peaceful there is no sense of I am thinking or I am doing or I am deciding . Everything happens effortlessly.
But when strong painful beliefs arise it seems that there is an I that’s thinking them believing them and feeling them . There is attachment to them. That feels like a separate self.

I would like to keep the writing for a while to try it , if you don’t mind ,and we can do zoom little later .

Love
Olga

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

But when strong painful beliefs arise it seems that there is an I that’s thinking them believing them and feeling them . There is attachment to them. That feels like a separate self.

Does this feeling suggest in any way that it is a separate self?
Does the feeling say "Hi, I'm a separate self"?
Who or what brings the information that this feels like a separate self?


Is there an expectation/belief that some feelings are ok and some no?

I would like to keep the writing for a while to try it , if you don’t mind ,and we can do zoom little later .

Oh, sure. No problem at all.

Much love,
Luchana

[Zoi]

Hi luchana

Does this feeling suggest in any way that it is a separate self?

No it doesn’t

Does the feeling say "Hi, I'm a separate self"?

No it doesn’t.

Who or what brings the information that this feels like a separate self?

It’s a thought believed

Is there an expectation/belief that some feelings are ok and some no?

Yes ,there is a belief that says that as long as I see others as separate selves and react to them aggressively something is missing. The expectation in life is , this pattern to be healed and act with sanity. This pattern brings back the illusion of the self. This pattern was running my life before this shift and when it appears it’s like I lost it again.
Love olga

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

Does this feeling suggest in any way that it is a separate self?

No it doesn’t

Does the feeling say "Hi, I'm a separate self"?

No it doesn’t.

You did a good looking. Exactly the feeling doens't say anything about a separare self. It's just a raw feeling.

Who or what brings the information that this feels like a separate self?

It’s a thought believed

Is it fare enough to sya that a thought brings this information?

And who or what believe that thought?
Who or what produce that thought?
Can the one making the thought be found at experience?
Can the one believing in that thought be found at experience?

Yes ,there is a belief that says that as long as I see others as separate selves and react to them aggressively something is missing. The expectation in life is , this pattern to be healed and act with sanity. This pattern brings back the illusion of the self. This pattern was running my life before this shift and when it appears it’s like I lost it again.

There is no you even now and still aggresive reactions are happening.
Why this should change just because the self is seen to be an illusion?

So called unpleasant sensations, agressive reactions and thoughts will not stop appearing Some old traumas, patterns or emotional pain may still show up and will need some further work. It's usually easier to work on these after seeing no-self.
Seeing through the self is just the first step, just the beginning, and lots of further looking is needed after, in order for conditionings to gradually fall away. And this 'falling away' can last at the end of the organism.

Also, many emotions are result of conditioned patters stemming from childhood, from traumas, and all sort of personality issues. But these things won't change just because the self is seen through. The personality stays almost completely intact. Lots of further looking is needed to resolve these patters.

Many of us expect to get into a state of having predominantly positive emotions, and not having any unpleasant ones. But seeing through the self is not about not having half of the emotions, and feeling good all the time or most of the time. Not at all. It's about seeing that these emotions doesn't stick to anything... and yet, these emotions arise and will arise.

This pattern was running my life before this shift and when it appears it’s like I lost it again.

I understand you...it's commom and happen quote often. But look

Who or what has a possibility to find something and than lost something?


Much love
Luchana

[Zoi]

Hi luchana

Who or what brings the information that this feels like a separate self?

It’s a thought believed

Is it fare enough to sya that a thought brings this information?

I would say,It is body sensations +reaction + specific thoughts, all labeled “ separate self “

And who or what believe that thought?

Here the answer that comes is I believe that thought

Who or what produce that thought?

body sensations +reaction + specific thoughts produce that thought

Can the one making the thought be found at experience?

No, no one is making the thought.

Can the one believing in that thought be found at experience?

No it can’t. Believing in that thought happens unconsciously on its own .

This pattern was running my life before this shift and when it appears it’s like I lost it again

I understand you...it's commom and happen quote often. But look Who or what has a possibility to find something and than lost something?

No one. Everything is happening. Finding and losing are empty thoughts

Thank you
Olga

[Luchana]

Hi Olga,

I would say,It is body sensations +reaction + specific thoughts, all labeled “ separate self “

Good ovservations.
What is labbeling a thought "separate self"?
Isn't' it also a thought?

And what happens when you rename this feeling (of I) with just a feeling?

Am I feeling or there is just feeling happening?

Am I thinking or there is just thinking happening?

What is doing the thinking really?

Can a thought think?

Is thinking a doing or it is a happening?


Also here is an exercise, which might be helpful.
It takes about 15-10 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.
This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?
For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.
For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.
Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)
At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

What is here without labels?

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Did you notice any differences in the body?

Take your time
Much love
Luchana