End illusions

[Steve1991]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the me that I think I am is an illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
I really see the lack of self in all 'my' actions and know its only thought based but feel there's not been a complete realization. 'I' feel that I need a extra push to really look and see that there is no self in reality.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Help to see and truly understand. I have seen a few conversations between guides and seekers in liberation unleashed and can see the power behind speaking with someone who has seen. Really tired of seeking.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Lots of YouTube. Books and a few years meditation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

(can I call you like this or you prefer another name?)

My name is Luchana and I can join you in this investigation if you wish?

This is going to be your inqiury. I’m not going to give you any new ideas or beliefes, I’m not going to teach you anything. I will simply point, but it is you, who have to look. The main goal of this investigation is to experience the truth, the reality of what is for yourself.

It is good to leave aside all the books, videos and others opinions relating to this subject.
Also don’t read even different threads here in the forum, rather spent all your time in looking what is here present at experience.

Can we agree on this?


Few practical things:

How to use the quotes finctions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ&app=desktop

Post once a day, it really helps to keep focus. If for some reason is not possible to reply - please let me know.

I will ask you questions (they will be in Italic so you will easily know) and will giving exercises. All you have to do is to look your direct experience and write what feels true for you.
We look into the Direct Experience without assumptions and beliefs about what is. It is that simple.
What is Direct/Actual Experience? Everything we can experience with the 5 senses+thought (noticing the thought, but not what content of the thought is ) Something like "Oh, there is a thought here".

So, when we say Direct Experience we mean - what is it that we see, what is it that we hear, what is it that we taste, what is it that we can smell, what is it that we can touch + thought, but not what thought is about.

For example - If I ask you what is the colour of your socks today you can think and remember what socks you've pick this morning, or you can just look and see what colour are they really.

Also there are no wrong or right answers, so don’t worry - it is all ok :-)

Just reply with honesty from the heart.

So, are you really ready to begin?


Much love,
Luchana

[Steve1991]

(can I call you like this or you prefer another name?)
Yes steve is ok thank you.

It is good to leave aside all the books, videos and others opinions relating to this subject.
Also don’t read even different threads here in the forum, rather spent all your time in looking what is here present at experience.

Yes I understand. I have just ordered liberation unleashed but will leave this unopened lol.

So, are you really ready to begin?
I am lets do this.
I'm using my phone so trying my best to copy and quote hope its ok.
Thank you for helping me with this Luchana I will give it 100%.

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

I'm using my phone so trying my best to copy and quote hope its ok.

Maybe you will give another try?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

All right, let's start by diving in these questions:

Tell me what is it that you are really looking for?

How life will change if you find that?

How will you change?

What will be different?


Reply each quesion one by one.
Reply with honesty, from the heart.

Much love,
Luchana

[Steve1991]

Tell me what is it that you are really looking for?

I'm really tired and all I want is to be free.

How life will change if you find that

I will be honest I have been on this journey for five years, read so much and meditated a lot. I just feel I'm waiting for the pop then everything will fall into place. Again I Know this is mind expecting something that I've heard about enlightenment. I'm not sure what will change but would be nice to be able to relax and not feel a constant unease.

How will you change?

Good question. I would like to just be present and be there for my family. Spent so many years being pretty selfish really on my phone searching for this experience or head in the next book and never really looking up to see what I already have.

What will be different?

I just hope i can end this search and let life live me. Feed up of this imagined self that feels is steering the show. It's been an intense few years and some days you think why did I Every look at this non Duality thing. But understand It wasn't 'my' choice.
Thanks.

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for aswering these questions regarding expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. It's quite common that very easy one can miss something obvious because expecting something to happen, to change, etc. Even what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation.

I'm really tired and all I want is to be free.

It may sounds strange, but this in fact is very beautiful. When there is a despair, there is an openness to see.
All there is is freedom, it just don't belong to anyone.

I will be honest I have been on this journey for five years, read so much and meditated a lot. I just feel I'm waiting for the pop then everything will fall into place. Again I Know this is mind expecting something that I've heard about enlightenment. I'm not sure what will change but would be nice to be able to relax and not feel a constant unease.

Many of us have the impression that seeing through the illusion of a separate self will come with some special pop and will be accompainied with such a qualities like peace, calmness, relax and no unease... But seeing no self is not a glimple, a state to abide in. All states come and go and are subject to change. And everyone is different and it coudnt be known in advance.

It is very good that you can see that "this is mind expecting something" - there are all the expectations you've pick somewhere on the road. We all do that more or less.

What is important is to look in this very moment, many moments through the day and never rely on memory. Reality, truth or what is is simple, fresh and always here now when looked. Whether It is going to be a relax and or not - no one can say, only me can imagined what will be. Only me can imagine what it wants for itself.

Good question. I would like to just be present and be there for my family. Spent so many years being pretty selfish really on my phone searching for this experience or head in the next book and never really looking up to see what I already have.

And what if there is no you who could be present? What if there is only this - call it presence, life, existence?
The personality stays almost intact, all the patterns, behaviours, traumas need further looking and some may stay till the end of this living organism. Seeing no self is just the frist step, just the begining.

I just hope i can end this search and let life live me. Feed up of this imagined self that feels is steering the show. It's been an intense few years and some days you think why did I Every look at this non Duality thing. But understand It wasn't 'my' choice.

I must say that if there is something that decreases - this is the so-called seaking process. It can be said that seaking relaxes. So yes, it may happen, but no one can say when :-)

I am very curious about your last statement. And this is exactly what we are going to find out.
Was there ever been a you to have a choice in a first place?

Please read my comments few times ans see your expectations from a different angle. It will be better (best actually) to leave all your expectations aside and dive into this inquiry completely fresh.

After reading them 2, 3 times share -

Is there a resistance to any of it?


Much love,
Luchana

[Steve1991]

And what if there is no you who could be present?

I smiled when I read that. Yeah i understand how can a thought do anything. Just life as it is no one here.

Was there ever been a you to have a choice in a first place?

I always believed i was in control making choices, but realised that I don't know what my next thought is going to be and when I really watch the body through the day it does lots of movements without a me doing it. Although the thoughts I did that pop up after. It really is amazing when you look.

There is a lot of resistance coming up. Feels very intense. Still I will continue looking and chipping away at this lie.
Thank you Luchana for your help.

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

There is a lot of resistance coming up. Feels very intense. Still I will continue looking and chipping away at this lie.

Thank you for sharing this with me.

It’s important because resistance can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, resistance is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. Now, let's take a closer look at this.
Look at it and just let it be here. Find where in the body is being felt, bring it closer. It's fine to just let it be.
Can you say something more about it?

What is this resistance about?
Is it protecting something?
What would might happen if you not resist?


Examine closely, no rush. Just gentle curiosity.

Thank you Luchana for your help.

You are most welcome :-)

Luchana

[Steve1991]

Can you say something more about it?

Yeah its been very intense since I've been questioning the sense of separation. When I really sit down and look I feel that so many distractions pop up and pull me away from looking. I have noticed this more and more.

What is this resistance about?

I guess its about really finding out if it all a lie and what will happen to life and how will functioning still happen. Hope that i can still fit in and not be that odd non Duality guy.

Is it protecting something?

I can't find anything no matter how much I look. The frustration seems to build with this. Could it all just be thoughts protecting the master thought 'me'???

What would might happen if you not resist

I will be honest I've not a clue. I will really pause today and really. Look into this.
Thanks

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

I guess its about really finding out if it all a lie and what will happen to life and how will functioning still happen. Hope that i can still fit in and not be that odd non Duality guy.

Oh, this was exactly my fear :-) I was scared to death that I might stop functioning and I'm not be able to look after my child, my loved ones... But there is no you even now and functioning happens, perfectly orcestrating by no one, it's only seems the other way. It is a very common beliefe and it's something that you've read or heard somewhere on the road. Nothing more, nothing to fear about. Like I've mentioned in the prevous message - fear/resistance is a perfect mehanism and it does its job very well. It is protecting something from being found out.

What I am asking you now is to just look behind this fear/resistance and see - is there anything that fear protects?

I can't find anything no matter how much I look. The frustration seems to build with this. Could it all just be thoughts protecting the master thought 'me'???

Excellent observation and question :-)
Just notice how thoughts come (like the inner voice maybe) judge and label everything.
Can you see this?

Is there someone or something making these thoughts?
Is there a thinker?
Or there is just thinking happening?

Look for just the simple facts of reality.

Much love,
Luchana

[Steve1991]

Is there anything that fear protects?

There only seems to be the fear. When I really look at it though it seems to have a space around it, if that makes sense.
The more I look the only thing i see is space or emptiness.

Can you see this?

Yes I can see thought come and go and attach to everything. I SEE, I HEAR ETC.

Is there someone or something making these thoughts?

No one here making thought. Thought just happen.

Is there a thinker?

When I really look I cant find anything.
No thinker no one here in charge of anything. I've spent 30 years believing that i was inside this body but when you look its a load of BS. Its all just happening me sitting here before work typing on this phone is just happening. Wow that's mad:)
I will continue to explore today.
Thanks

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

There only seems to be the fear. When I really look at it though it seems to have a space around it, if that makes sense.
The more I look the only thing i see is space or emptiness.

You did a very good observation. If some resistance or fear show up again - just share.

Yes I can see thought come and go and attach to everything. I SEE, I HEAR ETC.

No one here making thought. Thought just happen.

You did a very good looking. It's quite obvious when you look, isn't it?
Yes, thought claim all kind of stuf to be true, but is this so in reality?
This is exactly what we are going to find.

When I really look I cant find anything.
No thinker no one here in charge of anything. I've spent 30 years believing that i was inside this body but when you look its a load of BS. Its all just happening me sitting here before work typing on this phone is just happening. Wow that's mad:)

I am smiling reading the last sentence :-) "Mad" is not so bad.

Let's gone completly mad than

When you wake up in the morning, stay for a while in the bed -2, 3 min and notice - there is a moment when leaving the bed happens, right?

Look at these questions and let me know what you find:

Where does the "decision" to leave the bed come from?
Is there something giving the command to get up ?
Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?
What makes the body get up?
Does a ‘you’ command the body?
Does a thought command the body?


Also what I suggest is to imply looking in your dayly life. Right there in the midst of the day.
As you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find a self moving the body around. Walking, driving, typing, eating, shopping, dressing yourself,taking a shower etc.
Is there a WHO living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?


Have fun,

Much love,
Luchana

[Steve1991]

Hi Luchana,

Where does the "decision" to leave the bed come from? I want to say the decision came from no where is this right?

Is there something giving the command to get up ?

It just seems a decision was made and the body moved. Thought comes in after and says i did that.

Is there controller hiding? If so, where exactly?

I cannot find the controller. To be honest I'm starting to see it all seems to be a story. You have life as it is then you have this side line fantasy story of life. How it should be or dislikes etc. I spend 90% of the day looking and watching the body doing its own thing and it obvious. Still seeking continues.

What makes the body get up?

the body just seems to know what to do and when to do it.

Does a ‘you’ command the body?

nope when watched the little sneaky me comes in after. I'm walking the dog, I'm driving, I'm riding a bike, love to see a thought do those things :)

Does a thought command the body?

I want to day no, but thoughts can suggest things like make a cup of tea? But are these just general day to day thoughts and not self related.

I sat back in work today with friends and noticed that 90% of conversations were self related. The me they are all talking about is an illusion. I know language is very dualistic and can't really be helped but you really see people struggling and believing in all there stuggles the me creates.

I had a couple of interesting moments yesterday when in work when thought came up. I did that, then had a shudder through the body when i seen the thoughts taking credit and trying to create the me.

Thank you.

[Luchana]

Hi Steve,

It just seems a decision was made and the body moved. Thought comes in after and says i did that.

you did a good looking.

I cannot find the controller. To be honest I'm starting to see it all seems to be a story. You have life as it is then you have this side line fantasy story of life. How it should be or dislikes etc. I spend 90% of the day looking and watching the body doing its own thing and it obvious. Still seeking continues.

It is so good that you can see this. Keep looking vigilantly like this. Seeking will drop when it drops.

the body just seems to know what to do and when to do it.

Are you sure?
Is it possible for the body to know what to do?
Or things just happen?
Whcih feels more true?

I want to day no, but thoughts can suggest things like make a cup of tea?

What can I thought do?
Can a thought think?
Can a thought suggest?
"Let's make a cup of tea" - for whom does this thought appear?
Can this one be found in experience?


you say this

But are these just general day to day thoughts and not self related.

and this:

I sat back in work today with friends and noticed that 90% of conversations were self related.

and also this

I had a couple of interesting moments yesterday when in work when thought came up. I did that, then had a shudder through the body when i seen the thoughts taking credit and trying to create the me.

Let's check how things are in reality.

You will need 10 min a pen and a sheet of paper.

Get a sheet of paper and draw a line that divides that sheet in half. Label one half 'self' and the other side 'other'. Sit down and start a timer for 5 minutes. Every time you have a thought make a mark on the sheet. If that thought is about the self put a mark on the self side, if it’s about something else, mark the other side. If a thought about food occurs due to feeling hungry, mark that on the self side. Any thought that refers back to a self should go on the self side. (I'm bored, I'm tired, is the door locked (my safety) that video was funny (I was amused), my back hurts, I am frightened)

Take you time and let me know what you find.

Thank you.

you are most welcome :-)

Much love
Luchana

[Steve1991]

Hi Luchana,

Or things just happen?

yeah things just happen, how would this body know how to do anything.

What can I thought do?

Yeah of course a thought can't do anything. It can't see, hear or experience anything its just a labelling machine. Thoughts appear to no one. They just happen and the story of they appear to me is just that a story. No me can ever be found.

Let's check how things are in reality.

That is amazing, that is unbelievable how many thoughts are there concerning this me. Thanks for that.
I will continue to really look. Thank you