Hello

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Tan
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Hello

Postby Tan » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:33 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That the concept of "I" is false. Thoughts and emotions will still be there but the absence of self makes it easier to detach from them, meaning that thoughts and emotions won't steer you into a certain direction as much.

What are you looking for at LU?
Nothing much. There aren't any expectations at all. A friend of mine is on here and I've been lurking around the forums, then decided that I might as well try it out. Not looking for enlightenment or any endgame attached to it, just keeping an open mind with it all.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Like mentioned before, not much. Hope though that he or she will be patient with the whole process. I've read some of the questions, they can get a bit pedantic and I'm okay with that, just expect that there's going to be a lot of running around and me asking questions.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Not much. I've had a few acid trips before. I don't think I experienced ego death but I did accept I was dead once and that the identity surrounding "I" is pretty flimsy. Like my consciousness took all the likes, dislikes, qualities, and characteristics, and reduced it all to a bare minimum, a clean slate, and I was there confused as to who "I" really am. No one really tried to help unpack it, I don't think anyone could've. But it really racked my brain for a while, like who is it all behind the lens? What is it?

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:38 am

hi Tan,

I am Jadzia and if you like we can have a bit of walk together to see what can be unraveled.
Thoughts and emotions will still be there but the absence of self makes it easier to detach from them
There is no need of an absence of self, it is a character in a story, it stays, who doesn't love a good story. ;-)
The self is simply not what it seems to be, what is strongly believed, like being a separate entity, the thinker, the doer, the decider, the body, the chooser, lifes manager - which are just some of the strongest believes connected to the idea of self.
Once it is understood, felt, known it slowly stops being personal and with that thoughts and emotion are seen and are experienced differently over time.

What else do you expect to change after Gating?
What will change in life or not?
How will you change?
Is there something you would miss?
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
8
What makes this an 8 and not a 10?

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:58 am

Ah yes. You are correct. The character stays, but it will be easier to detach and realize that it is merely that, a character.
What else do you expect to change after Gating?
After gating, I expect that I will have a better tool in the box for mindfulness. And I understand this is the character assuming the future.
What will change in life or not?
The lens in which I see life will shift a bit. I experience it sometimes now. As I walk, I'm aware of my mind's camera bobbing with each step, and looking back, there are images that stay, which hasn't happened in a long while. It's easy for me to forget, or repress. But, for instance, I remember the most innane details, like one night I was taking a stroll and vines were growing inside a bulb. I remember vividly.
How will you change?
How I'd change... I don't expect myself to suddenly become more confident. I guess it would help me better realize that everything now, me typing and having a coffee, you replying, is all a convergence of circumstance. I broke my leg in an jiujitsu freak accident 4 months ago, and whenever I bring it up, the whole suddenness of it, the meaningless of it all, the character feels wrath for the person that enacted it. And I understand this is the self ashamed that it didn't draw a line, a reckoning, to tip the scales for balance. From shame, anger, and then to shame again, because if I did enact my meaning of vengeance, then I will be incarcerated, and my mother would cry, and I don't want that.
Is there something you would miss?
I don't think I'd miss anything. I accept that life is a waterfall, not never falling, so in the future, if or when the gating happens, there'd be new things to juggle. Likewise, I try not to be so weighed down by the past, I still look back once or twice, but I try to be mindful and realize I can never change what happened, and that it's good that I feel a sense of deep longing and nostalgia for what things were, because it reminds me that it was beautiful.
What makes this an 8 and not a 10?
I placed an 8 instead of a 10 because I'm aware that my foundation built into me as a child - the "I", this importance of thinking, of associating one's thoughts with who you are - will have a tug of war with the path. I won't lie, somewhere in me lies a slight apprehension, which is par for the course I think. Doubt is very human.

To cap off, there is an awareness that these are all expectations of the "I" and the self. Again, I agree, I like a good story.

Much love,
Arthur

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:13 am

The character stays, but it will be easier to detach and realize that it is merely that, a character.
There sure will be less stickyness and disentangling becomes easier.
I broke my leg in an jiujitsu freak accident 4 months ago, and whenever I bring it up, the whole suddenness of it, the meaningless of it all, the character feels wrath for the person that enacted it. And I understand this is the self ashamed that it didn't draw a line, a reckoning, to tip the scales for balance. From shame, anger, and then to shame again, because if I did enact my meaning of vengeance, then I will be incarcerated, and my mother would cry, and I don't want that.
Great story. ;-)
Thoughts weave an emotional story and womms! it sticks.

Do have a look:
What makes Arthur? Does he has components and if yes, what are they?
If you would point to Arthur where would you point to?
What makes the special Arthur-ness?

Take a bit of time with the answers and then share what you found.

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:43 am

What makes Arthur? Does he has components and if yes, what are they?
Arthur is 21. Components include a love for music, writing, video games. He doesn't know if the lack of moderation is a problem, he overdoes things he thinks are worth overdoing. Consistency and discipline are in a constant state of flux. He is also prone to overeating and overdrinking due to childhood foundations and knows it's not an excuse. He is attracted to the concept of Sisyphus - whenever he looks back, there are patterns of almost attaining a state of being, before the rock rolls back down the hill, but he is stubborn, so still he gets back on the wagon. There are also periods of self-doubt and self-loathing and hate, which he understands is a slippery slope, yet sometimes, he relishes in it.

He had three dreams when he was younger. Which he doesn't really put much thought into but it's still there. Two of them was being a clock in a void for an eternity. The last was being a gargoyle passed by people and time. Repetition is terrifying, which contradicts the Sisyphus analogy. But he understands that repetition is only terrifying when nothing is gained from it.
If you would point to Arthur where would you point to?
Arthur is everywhere in the body? The limbs, the digits, the head. Every part, like the gears of a clock, makes up the whole.
What makes the special Arthur-ness?
I guess the path he's been through. Migrating to Saudi from the Philippines when he was 12, then moving to China when he was 18. He's homesick for a place he's never been to - always moving, always not stopping.

P.S. Thank you by the way for taking your time to guide me. I appreciate it. Also, I don't know if I'm writing too much?

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:26 am

Also, I don't know if I'm writing too much?
Nope and these are fine answers.
Arthur is 21. Components include a love for music, writing, video games. He doesn't know if the lack of moderation is a problem, he overdoes things he thinks are worth overdoing. Consistency and discipline are in a constant state of flux. He is also prone to overeating and overdrinking due to childhood foundations and knows it's not an excuse. He is attracted to the concept of Sisyphus - whenever he looks back, there are patterns of almost attaining a state of being, before the rock rolls back down the hill, but he is stubborn, so still he gets back on the wagon. There are also periods of self-doubt and self-loathing and hate, which he understands is a slippery slope, yet sometimes, he relishes in it.
Here we go: There is a lot of story about a character named Arthur, right?
There are lots of descriptions what kind of person A is, all of them tainted, as in judgemental. Some bits about A are favourable, some bits, well not so. There is memory of something that happened with A and telling of how A feels at given times.
All this descriptions give a feeling that this Arthur is known, right? He seems to exist!
There is someone, there is proof as there is a whole story about him.
Story aka thougths, all thoughts about an entity called A
Arthur is everywhere in the body? The limbs, the digits, the head. Every part, like the gears of a clock, makes up the whole.
OK. Added to all the thoughts about A there seems to be the body which strongly points to an existing Arthur.
I guess the path he's been through. Migrating to Saudi from the Philippines when he was 12, then moving to China when he was 18. He's homesick for a place he's never been to - always moving, always not stopping.
Right there seems to be a consistency. The story started in the past and through the now it certainly moves into the future.
That sure makes the story really credible.

Now the hour of truth:
There is no separate self entity in real life at all, no Arthur /outside of the story thoughts weave.
There is no doer, no owner, no experiencer, no chooser, no decider, no thinker. The so-called separate self is a fantasy figure existing in a story, it does not have any existence in reality.

How does that make you feel? The non existing you? ;-)

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:28 am

How does that make you feel? The non existing you?
A bit terrified if I had to pick a word. I could feel a budding emotion in my stomach but I can't really label it. Maybe it came from the fact that my whole existence or perceived existence had been challenged? There's alot of questions to unpack.

But it's not a bad thing - the absence of Arthur - is it? And since this Arthur is merely a fantasy figure in a story, and doesn't exist in reality, then what is reality? These words I'm typing down, synapses sending signals to my fingers, aren't real? Or are real, but haven't been chosen by this character - written by another entity? What about other people, are they not real? My family. The people I love. You. Also doesn't exist?

After sitting on the emotion, and feeling it, there is a sense of some weight lifted, its felt by the periphery. It's weird. It surges incrementally. I feel close to somewhere. I don't know what.

I look back in the past. Memories feel like a dream I can't trust. I feel eerie.

There's love here. I don't know why. I try to pinpoint it more accurately. Maybe a false label? Emotion disguised in something else.
-------

I took a walk. There's a sense of calmness. I was looking at the buildings, and again, like last I posted, it happened, how it seemed like I was watching a movie. Clarity. I looked up at the stars, and it felt like I wanted to cry but I didn't. There's love here. And gratitude. And for a moment, I didn't exist. The past was gone. A part of me feels a bit saddened, because it feels fleeting. And as I sit, there is a sense of longing for something I never had. Like I miss something. And I feel empty, but in a good way, like after a good cry. Cathartic.

I know the words I type seem fragmented, or everywhere, and I apologize. But it's weird. Reminds me a bit of how it feels under the influence of psychedelics. I can feel my head, my temples. And my brain kind of hurts.

But, likewise, there's a sliver of doubt. Some thoughts chalk all these feelings up to overreaction.

Also, rereading through this, it seems like it's been typed by another person.

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:07 pm

You went for it, good.

First of the story, the character won't disappear.
He can still be loved and cherished and the unfolding of the story, all the interactions can be observed, like in any film you watch. The thoughts will be around weaving the story, the emotions, all the feelings which are known now.
So in some way nothing changes and in an other way something changes.
My family. The people I love. You. Also doesn't exist?
In a the same way that A exists, Jadzia is a character in a story and yet it is not her typing this, typing just happens. The same with the people you love - the love will go on.
But, and here is the but of course ;-): None of us is a separate entity, separate from each other. There is no separation AT ALL.
You don't need to get this now, you've just read it and that is enough for the moment.
A bit terrified if I had to pick a word. I could feel a budding emotion in my stomach but I can't really label it. Maybe it came from the fact that my whole existence or perceived existence had been challenged? There's alot of questions to unpack.
It takes several deep breaths to allow thoughts which go against the conditioning, the belief system.
there is a sense of some weight lifted
Yes. The entanglement, apart from the fun parts, feels heavy.
Memories feel like a dream I can't trust.
True. Retrospection happening in the now, like in a film.
I took a walk. There's a sense of calmness. I was looking at the buildings, and again, like last I posted, it happened, how it seemed like I was watching a movie. Clarity. I looked up at the stars, and it felt like I wanted to cry but I didn't. There's love here. And gratitude. And for a moment, I didn't exist. The past was gone. A part of me feels a bit saddened, because it feels fleeting. And as I sit, there is a sense of longing for something I never had. Like I miss something. And I feel empty, but in a good way, like after a good cry. Cathartic.
You really did look and had a good look at what is. We all love these experiences, hold them open handed, they come and go, to be cherished and then to be released.
But, likewise, there's a sliver of doubt. Some thoughts chalk all these feelings up to overreaction.
No problem. We will have a closer look at some beliefs and slowly it can really sink in.
Also, rereading through this, it seems like it's been typed by another person.
Sounds a bit creepy, right? Maybe not another person, but sure not by A.

Rest now, it seems to be night time at your place, that is good timing.
Sleep well, have a wonderful breakfast, do whatever you have to do.
See how you feel, what thoughts come up and when you have time share them.

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:19 pm

COMPILED THOUGHTS:

January 14, 2021

I went to the hospital. Took a taxi there. Started looking as usual, meditating I guess. Freely acknowledging thoughts then detaching from it, whilst trying not to be dragged by the flow of it all. All of a sudden, there was a moment when I felt both awed and terrified though. Like I looked too much. An instant realization that it’s all just artificial props for a play - the buildings, the cars, the street lamps. It was strange. It ended as soon as I realized what had occurred. And thoughts started to imagine a post for you, what I’d write when I’d get home. Then I’d become aware of it, and it would end, then back to just looking.

Same way on the taxi ride home. Imagining what I’d write, and it’s definitely not what I’m writing now. It was an ebb and flow of being present and thinking. And I don’t expect the being present thing to be constant. I feel like it’d be boring that way. The constant day to day, moment to moment struggle is exciting in some way.

I remembered what you said about these sudden flashes of clarity, that we’re supposed to hold them, then let them go when they’re done. And I don’t mind that they’re fleeting anymore. There’s a sense of calmness that comes with it. That there will be more.

There are also sudden moments of childish awe. And as stated above, a terrifying grandeur underlying it. When I look - for instance when I was walking back home - there’s a sensation of staring into a pit of infinite expanse even though I was looking at what was currently in my field of vision as a whole. A thought of “Oh my god, I can do anything” comes in and bears both fear and a sense of weight that is lifted. And also a knowing that I don’t have the right to expect anything from the future, and somewhere by the edge, there’s a sensation that every puzzle will fit somehow one way or another.

Looking back at the day, it’s as though the memories are snippets of films I watched years and years ago. Strange.

I didn’t expect much from starting this. I lurked through the forums and it was interesting. I guess it hits differently when there’s someone really directing their focus on you.
------
January 15, 2021

Had a call with my friend, the one who told me about this site. He’s probably reading this haha. It was a good call. Quick.

About two or so weeks ago, he’s hit a wall with the whole process. Understandable, guide suggested that therapy is needed to root out trauma from the past, and he will in the upcoming weeks. Anyways, as iron sharpens iron, we started getting deep into it. The whole interaction was strange, I started realizing the words coming out of my mouth wasn’t in my control? Like it was just muscle memory. Riding a bike and all. It was instinct. And it wasn’t that there was a lack of emotion, but actually maybe there was a lack, I don’t know as I look back. I told him that I wasn’t thinking or anything as I’m saying these words, that it was just happening. That’s what he said before I started this whole process, that it’s just happening without our control, which I didn’t really get at the time, but man did it feel weird as hell now.

I basically gave him the recap of what’s been happening the past two days. The sudden flashes of clarity, the brief moments of terrifying awe. And I’m here trying to figure out how I can help him bridge that gap, I guess. I know I’m still figuring stuff out, I don’t have expectations that all of a sudden I’ll be enlightened or awakened or anything of the sort. I don’t think it exists really, and it’s the same way as people treating ego death from psychedelic use as endgame, it’s not. Life goes on, and it will be a day to day dance, an ebb and flow as said on the last entry. And it’s good that way. I don’t mind. I told him this, and he agreed that it’d be boring if it was just a constant hodgepodge of living like a dog, not thinking about the future, or the past, always thinking about the present moment.

Or maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. I’ve submitted to the fact that I don’t really know anything for certain and I’m at peace with that. Again, there’s love that comes with it for some reason.

We used the film analogy further in our conversation, and he said “I just don’t like the film I’m watching” and it really resonated with me. I don’t remember what I replied which is weird considering it was only a few hours ago. But I do remember the phone call got cut off just as I said it. Bad connection.

The silence gave me time to think. Just sent him a text that said “it’s not that it’s a film you like watching, it’s just a part of an act in the film you don’t want to watch.” Maybe it’s some hippie koombaya nonsense, but I like it. And it’s weird cause it doesn’t seem mine to own. Like it didn’t come from me. I further added that “there’ll be amazing parts further down the film and really bad stuff”

He asked if I knew what was coming. I said no, just that by logic, films usually comprise of ups and downs. That’s how we end up caring for the character so much. Cause we’re afraid to see them fall and then we’re happy to see them rise. It was a broad stroke. I don’t know if it helped.

But as said in the last entry, there’s a calm peace. I looked and poked and prodded at the whole jiujitsu incident, and there’s nothing, no hate, no love, just a sense of “okay”. It’s weird. I really tried to summon the hate, which is easy for me, but there was nothing there. I’m surprised a bit. And I welcome it. Maybe it’s cause time heals, or that it’s easier to forget as time goes on. I don’t know.

As I said in the last entry, there’s a sense of “everything will fall into place one way or another.” That I should stop worrying about the future because I know that when that time comes, it will be the present. It’s not an excuse to let everything fall by the wayside of course. I worked out this morning even though there was a slight sense of laziness. But I did. And it just happened. And now I’m typing this. And it’s strange. And there’s love and gratitude. Or maybe I wrote those two words as filler, another broad stroke. I don’t know. What I do know is that I like where I am, and what I’m doing, and what’s happening.
------
I just came back from the outside. Was at a bench loomed over by naked winter branches, staring up into the sky. There’s a sense of calmness here. Of peace. I looked as a whole, not trying to focus into one particular end, and it was difficult. Felt like I was having a stroke. It was just there. Unlabeled. And every time I tried, my field of vision shimmered, trying to steer itself into an object, before returning to focus on a segment.
-------
January 16, 2021

Forgot to mention that I tried wrapping my head around that there's no separation between us. Wanted to ask if this is the same kind of reincarnation thing as with Buddhism? Like when this "Arthur" dies (writing that out feels weird haha, sent a kneejerk reaction) there'll be another character? If so, I felt kind of sad. I was looking at people, and the taxi driver next to me, and realized that when the next film plays, it won't play out the same way. I'm okay with that of course, but the fact that they won't ever have the chance to stumble upon all these mindfulness stuff - I don't feel pity nor do I feel above them but I guess a childish something? Can't put it into words, yet I know it's childish.

So these are my compiled thoughts of the last two days. Pretty wild. Fun though. As though in every object, there vibrates a new significance. I wanted to know if there are any practices to maintain this? As said before, the components that make up the character are a lack of consistency and discipline, and there's fear there that as I roll the rock up the hill, it'll fall back down.

Should let go of that. Since it is just a mental story in the end. Feels freeing whenever I think "I don't exist" or "Arthur doesn't exist". Interaction is strange though. Like I understand it's Arthur speaking but I'm watching him speak. And writing that out feels odd as well. These moments are sudden flashes though, like being dragged in a torrent of water dotted by brief opportunities to breath.

Much love,
Arthur

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:40 am

January 16, 2021

Just did some meditation outside and actually took a good look. It was pretty overstimulating. A tear rolled down my eye and it got watery. I don't know if it was a biological response. I felt a dense heaviness in my chest, and I just yawned. Maybe just an overreaction? Grasping at straws? I don't know. But there was a definite presence of love and "oh god I can't believe I'm going to cry from looking at trees and leaves, Jesus." It was really beautiful. There was also a sensation of excitement. I don't know for what. But I remember there was a thought that I internalized for a moment that said "I'm nearing a boundary of something" and then it was discarded.

I started doing the Wim Hoff method. At first I just did it. No end goal. No label. No Wim Hoff. Just breathed heavily in and out. It just happened. And I was aware that it was happening and there was no reason for why it started. Maybe the dense heaviness in my chest? Biological response again?

When I realized it was the Wim Hoff method, I did the part where you hold your breath and it got pretty strange but familiar. Everything had a pulse, a wave to it the way things do under psychedelics. I'm not a scientist or anything but I think it's due to the artificial asphyxiation? Lack of air going to the brain and all that? I feel pretty good though. Like I'm really aware. It's odd. Oh and when I looked at things, I had a good grasp at the objects in the periphery. I don't know if that's worth of note to be honest but it felt like I was both aware and unaware at the same time, like in an interstice inbetween.

I know I wrote alot, please take your time and there's no rush at all for you to reply. Hope you're doing alright Jadzia. Much love.

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:21 am

Just something short right now, more will follow later.

There is seeking, right? And something that's looks very much like pushing.
Right now is not the moment to do extra exercises, pushing is no go - it is time to let something develope in its own way. So take the heat out, no extras, just observing, noticing and lots relaxing and doing other things, watching a film, read a book, whatever.
Ok?
What happens if one is pushing, stressing too much - it does obscur clarity!
And anyway who needs to hurry?

Love,
Jadzia

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Jadzia
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Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:52 pm

And I don’t expect the being present thing to be constant.
Hands are open, now and then something is there and then it is gone again.
There are also sudden moments of childish awe.
Just being has a fresh- and crispness to it, which one can just be in awe of.
That’s what he said before I started this whole process, that it’s just happening without our control, which I didn’t really get at the time, but man did it feel weird as hell now.
How comes it feels weird?T
There never ever was an entity called A as controler.
Isn't it anything else but thoughts comment?
I told him this, and he agreed that it’d be boring if it was just a constant hodgepodge of living like a dog, not thinking about the future, or the past, always thinking about the present moment.
Does one think oneself into the present or one simply in the present moment?
I looked as a whole, not trying to focus into one particular end, and it was difficult. Felt like I was having a stroke. It was just there. Unlabeled. And every time I tried, my field of vision shimmered, trying to steer itself into an object, before returning to focus on a segment.
We so love to prove something, try everything, but sometimes the best way of going is patiently with kindness and compassion.
If the body reacts there was forcing, the try to force into something. Might be an old habit of this A, will wash out over time.
As though in every object, there vibrates a new significance. I wanted to know if there are any practices to maintain this? As said before, the components that make up the character are a lack of consistency and discipline, and there's fear there that as I roll the rock up the hill, it'll fall back down.
This is no muscle training, where once one stops the muscles disappear.
In this kind of investigation is that what one founds that what is. NOthing will disappear again, there might be doubts, but hey, they are what is, too.
Look at the pattern of A, the will/try to push through something, stick to something, forcing, pushing. See how it plays out. How fear is added to it, the fear to loose everything again. This might be an old pattern, habitually coming. No need to change it, just observing, seeing the script behind it and allow the emotions connected to it.

Again, take the heat out.
Why?
You can trust the process!
Does a plant grow quicker if you pull the leaves? Or does the plant have a plan, a deep inner knowledge how the growing is done in the best way?

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
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Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:38 am

How comes it feels weird?T
There never ever was an entity called A as controler.
Isn't it anything else but thoughts comment?
Hm. Yes. I guess I used the word "weird" because it was the first time I was being aware of myself talking. Like fully detaching even though there were words being spoken. So it felt strange.
Does one think oneself into the present or one simply in the present moment?
One is simply in the present moment. These are old beliefs still maybe. Trying to wrap its head around the whole process using concepts of the old conditioning.
This is no muscle training, where once one stops the muscles disappear.
In this kind of investigation is that what one founds that what is. Nothing will disappear again, there might be doubts, but hey, they are what is, too.
Look at the pattern of A, the will/try to push through something, stick to something, forcing, pushing. See how it plays out. How fear is added to it, the fear to loose everything again. This might be an old pattern, habitually coming. No need to change it, just observing, seeing the script behind it and allow the emotions connected to it.
Honestly, at first there was fear and apprehension concerning the fact that nothing will disappear again. It kind of stumped me. There is the belief that says nothing stays the same, so this is really challenging that idea. Looking at it, and remembering what you said about the old conditioning, is it just that? The fear and apprehension stemming from the old belief that everything is impermanent? I was about to write that I'm okay with it, but I don't know. The emotions linger, and I'm looking at it.
Again, take the heat out.
Why?
You can trust the process!
Does a plant grow quicker if you pull the leaves? Or does the plant have a plan, a deep inner knowledge how the growing is done in the best way?
Okay. Noticed that this is the same pattern of the character. Of overdoing, of quick short bursts before fading away. There is a question of "what do I do in the meantime?" A strong belief that if one needs to change, there must be an action that precedes it. So this is boggling and a bit confusing.

But okay. No pushing, no seeking. Just observing and noticing. No rush. Okay.

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Jadzia
Posts: 2313
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: Hello

Postby Jadzia » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:35 am

One is simply in the present moment. These are old beliefs still maybe. Trying to wrap its head around the whole process using concepts of the old conditioning.
There is nothing else but the this very moment.
These old beliefs, are they anything more than a repetative part of the story thoughts tell?
See, the story will go on, thoughts will go on commenting, explaining, describing and so on. It is just seeing what they are.
Do thoughts ever describe reality?
Have a look.
There is the belief that says nothing stays the same, so this is really challenging that idea. Looking at it, and remembering what you said about the old conditioning, is it just that? The fear and apprehension stemming from the old belief that everything is impermanent? I was about to write that I'm okay with it, but I don't know. The emotions linger, and I'm looking at it.
My answer talked about knowledge. Knowledge doesn't wane, appear or disappear, it simply is, simply is always there. It might be clouded or a bit overgrown.
Can you imagine that you learn nothing new in this investigation but just remember what is?

The fear might point to something else. Can you allow yourself to sit with the fear and simply ask it what it might protect and if it allows you to look behind it?
This is a very simply way to deal with appearing emotions. Just sit quietly and ask and listen. Trust that the answer will come, patience and allowing.
Okay. Noticed that this is the same pattern of the character. Of overdoing, of quick short bursts before fading away. There is a question of "what do I do in the meantime?" A strong belief that if one needs to change, there must be an action that precedes it. So this is boggling and a bit confusing.
Yes.
So a pattern is somewhat like an automatic response, a habit.
What else is found coming with a pattern?
The usual culprit, thoughts. And what do they do concerning a pattern?
Don't they explain why one acts like that, why it is important and needed, how it works, what beliefs are connected to it?
Look at this like an explorer, like you never witnessed something more interesting and as if it would be completely new to you. Let everything well up what comes up and then take some deep breaths, realize it is story and go on allowing everything to grow in its own time. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

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Tan
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:31 am

Re: Hello

Postby Tan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:58 am

Do thoughts ever describe reality?
I guess so? This is actually a difficult question haha. Labels and names and dates pop up to describe what is. But reality doesn’t need thoughts. Thoughts need an anchor to latch onto. But reality also need thoughts to be described? Because without thoughts, then what is it? Just is? No distinction between outlines, no separation, no form. Just a collection of cause and effects, unlabeled?

An interdependence maybe? Duality of things? Both need each other? The way organs need a body to live in and a body needs organs to function.

I don't know. My mind hurts haha. I will surrender to it for now. Take the heat off as you said.
The fear might point to something else. Can you allow yourself to sit with the fear and simply ask it what it might protect and if it allows you to look behind it? This is a very simply way to deal with appearing emotions. Just sit quietly and ask and listen. Trust that the answer will come, patience and allowing.
Fear from changing the pattern. The character has grown accustomed to it, comfortable and complacent to it. To the point that it even acknowledges that it is a pattern that perpetuates. But these are thoughts weaving a story as you said. Which, going by the investigation, is not real. So whoever this "I" is, this "Arthur" is should not be weighed down by it - it does not bend over for these stories because it is not real, just thoughts forming patterns.

Though it's apparent that this is not real, there is a sliver that holds onto it. Because it's comfortable with it. Defined its mental figure around it. The components holding the character together feels sad to see that it's merely a story, as though it lost a part of its identity.

The heavy breathing helps by the way. As the answers propagate, there is a heaviness in the chest.


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