Inquiry with forgetmenot

[Allen12]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That there is no self, me, or separate independent entity in control in reality.

What are you looking for at LU?
This will be my second thread on LU. I'm looking forward to working with Kay (forgetmenot) and having her guide me through an inquiry. I'm looking for clarity on what is really here and what is really being experienced.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that this inquiry will help me to clearly see what is actually present in reality and what is only an illusion.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have done an inquiry on LU before in another thread.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

To start, here are some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Unless exercises given need several days to be accomplished; post every day, if not, every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know.

2. Please answer what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers may sound good but will be of no benefit to you in having you realise that there is no separate self. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

Let's begin this exploration with these questions. Although you are aware of your expectations, let's just start off and see how you think life will look like; what life will feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change etc. Could you please answer the questions in your own words:-

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that are in blue text.
Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

How will life change?

Life will not change. It will keep going on the way it has always gone on.

How will you change?

The way that current experience is perceived may be different as we look at what is really happening instead of what the thought story claims is happening.

What will be different?

About the same answer as the previous question. Perception may change, but we'll have to look at reality to find out if it really will.

What is missing?

Maybe some more clarity about what is really happening in reality. I've noticed more and more kind of being revealed in its own time since you showed me how to look without expectations. In recent days I've started to notice how more and more thoughts don't make any sense and don't have anything to do with what is really happening.

Thanks!

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

What is missing?

Maybe some more clarity about what is really happening in reality. I've noticed more and more kind of being revealed in its own time since you showed me how to look without expectations. In recent days I've started to notice how more and more thoughts don't make any sense and don't have anything to do with what is really happening.

Expectations hinder recognising what is already here and always has been....because the focus is on a non existent imagined future. Actual experience - sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and the face value of thought are always here.

So, let's become aware of what actual experience (AE) is, and what LOOKING entails with the following exercise.

LOOKING is simple. It is becoming aware of the raw experience of colour, sound, smell, sensation and taste and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience. The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.

I would like you to sit quietly and close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes that can be heard both inside and outside of the room. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).

One sound I heard is the hum of my dehumidifier.

Thanks,

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hey Allen,

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).

One sound I heard is the hum of my dehumidifier.

Okay, great! Now sit quietly again and listen to the sound for a minute of two and as you listen, I would like for you to answer the following questions by looking at what you direct actual experience is and not with an intellectual answer.

Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is the ' hum of the dehumidifier'?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is 'hum of the dehumidifier', or is it thought that suggests it?

What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘birds chirping’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is the ' hum of the dehumidifier'?

Without thought there's no way to know that the sound heard is the dehumidifier.

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is 'hum of the dehumidifier', or is it thought that suggests it?

Sound by itself does not suggest in any way that it is the "hum of the dehumidifier". Only thought suggests this by attaching labels/images to the sound.

What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘birds chirping’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?

AE of birds chirping is sound + thought. The raw sound combined with the label/images of birds chirping.


Thanks,

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

Nice looking. Let's continue in the same vein.

You may have noticed that interpretation of AE happens quickly, so labelling and interpretation will always happen, however you can become aware of labels/thoughts that appear with, and over AE. We want to be able to tell the difference between AE and thoughts interpretation of AE.

The following exercise points to what I mean.

For this exercise you will need an apple or any other piece of fruit will do.



Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure is the actual experience of colour and the actual experience of thought.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience - what you know for sure and is always here.

The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

There's only colour and thought about "apple". "Apple" isn't part of actual experience so it can't be found.

However, is an apple actually known?

Apple is not actually known in AE. It is only known as kind of a thought story. Thought puts together the colour, smell, taste, etc. labeled apple into the concept/idea of apple.


Thanks,

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hey Allen,

However, is an apple actually known?

Apple is not actually known in AE. It is only known as kind of a thought story. Thought puts together the colour, smell, taste, etc. labeled apple into the concept/idea of apple.

Great! So if you look at the 'I/me' , is it actually known?

It's important that breaking down activities, objects and emotions as AE is incorporated into your daily life throughout your day, every day. Like any habit, it has to be practiced in order for it to become second nature. I would like you to do the following exercise as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily ACTIVITIES, OBJECTS AND EMOTIONS simply as colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

For example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down objects, emotions, objects and daily activities into AE and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

I'd like to spend a couple more days practicing this if it's OK. It takes some getting used to.

Thanks!

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen....no worries...take your time.

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

So if you look at the 'I/me' , is it actually known?

No, it's not actually known. Only the sensations that are usually labeled the I/me are known. But it is only sensation. Not an actual I/me.

Just break down objects, emotions, objects and daily activities into AE and report back how you go, giving some examples please.

Activities:

Walking outside:

Scenery and traffic = colour
Feeling of wind blowing = sensation
Feeling of legs moving and walking = sensation
Sound of wind and traffic = sound
Thoughts about walking and where I'm walking to = thought
Breathing = sensation
Breathing fresh air = sensation, smell
Thoughts about fresh air = thought

Brushing my teeth:

Holding the toothbrush= sensation
Feeling of brushing teeth = sensation
Taste of toothpaste = taste
Smell of toothpaste = smell
Thoughts about brushing teeth and toothpaste = thought
Sight of myself in the mirror brushing my teeth = colour
Sound of brushing my teeth = sound

Eating spaghetti:

Grabbing and using a fork = sensation
Sight of fork and spaghetti = color
Sensation of spaghetti in mouth = sensation
Smell of spaghetti = smell
Taste of spaghetti = taste
Chewing sensation = sensation
Sounds of chewing = sound
Swallowing sensation = sensation
Sounds of swallowing = sound
Thoughts about spaghetti = thought


Objects:

Orange:

Sight of orange: color
Idea of orange: thought
Thoughts about looking at an orange = thought
Sensation of picking up an orange = sensation

Water bottle:

Sight of water bottle = color
Sensation of grabbing/touching water bottle = sensation
Thoughts about water bottle = thought

Computer mouse:

Sight of mouse = colour
Sensation of using mouse = sensation
Thoughts about mouse / using mouse = thought


Emotions:

Anxiety:

Sensation in chest area = sensation
Thoughts about the sensation as anxiety = thought
Thoughts about anxiety = thought
Thoughts about why there's anxiety = thought

Annoyance:

Sensation of tension in head and chest area = sensation
Thoughts about being annoyed = thought
Thoughts about the annoying situation = thought

Fear:

Sensation in chest/abdomen = sensation
Thoughts about being confused = thought
Thoughts about feeling fear = thought
Thoughts about the past and future = thought


Thanks,

Allen

[forgetmenot]

Hi Allen,

Thank you for doing such wonderful looking! :) It is now to incorporate that looking into your every day….make it a habit.

How does it feel to see what actually is?

I am glad to see that you also looked at emotions that appeared.
When looking at emotions as sensation + thought, what’s it like, then, to just be with the ‘emotion’?

So if you look at the 'I/me' , is it actually known?

No, it's not actually known. Only the sensations that are usually labeled the I/me are known. But it is only sensation. Not an actual I/me.

Yes, sensation labelled as “I” is known, as are the thoughts ABOUT an “I”, but an “I” isn’t actually known. It is a concept…and concepts aren’t an issue, unless they are believed.

Does the label "I" contain an actual I...does it contain an actual person?
Does the label "I" itself, suggest in any way that it is an I?
Does the label "I" know anything about an I?
What does the label "I" point to? In other words, what does the word/label "I" actually refer to?

Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience

Okay, so let’s become clear about the difference between actual experience and content of thought. Content of thought is the interpretation by thought, of actual experience. Thoughts either point to AE or they point to thoughts about thought.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “this is a cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

So I invite you to:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it?

Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?

The thoughts and mental images are real only as the actual experience of arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what they are about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. In other words, the picture/idea that thought is ‘painting’ is the content of thought, and it is fictional.
Can you see this?

Over the course of the next day, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) is REALLY happening, or the content is just pure imagination. Let me know how it goes.

Kay

[Allen12]

Hi Kay,

I'd like to take some more time with this one too. Will you be taking any time off to enjoy Christmas? Not sure if it'd be better for you if I replied after. Please let me know.

Happy Holidays!

Allen