Flowing Energy

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skilledone
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Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:18 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That I, or what I have been told and led to believe is me, isn't in fact me or I. What I understand so far is that my bodies "I" is a mash up of information that has been given to my body and formed into a belief that "I" am me. When in reality "I" am simply a conglomeration of stuff that is working together to form a being that "I" think of as me.

What are you looking for at LU?
This is a difficult question to answer as "I" am not looking for any one-thing as much as "I" am just interested in communicating with beings that understand the full depth of the illusion that is "I". My intuition is that this is an opportunity to explore the reality of not being who "I" think "I" am and to check my misconceptions.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Initially it would be nice to chat with other beings that are like minded which would hopefully lead to more questions for me to answer as well as developing better answers for myself. If that makes any sense what-so-ever. Sheesh who knew it would be so hard to have expectations about something that isn't! "I" crack myself up sometimes :)

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
"I" believe that we are all connected and unconnected at the same time, "I" am slowly coming to realize that this connection is what keeps us all going even though we don't often acknowledge it. Other than being curious about everything, "I" would say that "I" have not yet found anything that keeps me interested long enough to give it anymore time than it has already gotten.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:17 am

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.

This is going to be your inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realisation, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards no self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
And also post daily.
If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

Could you please tell me what are you really looking for? How would your life change if you find that?
What are you hoping for to change?
What do you hope that should happen?
What is missing?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:53 pm

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for your questions and for helping guide me here....

I think I am in agreement (for now) on posting responses daily....just please be aware some may be shorter than others depending on my time commitments.

I am not really looking for anything in particular, other than a better understanding of how this makes so much sense and yet doesn't make sense at all. With this in mind, I am not really sure my life would change drastically as this conversation continues if that makes any sense?

I am not hoping to change anything, simply to just better understand and be able to communicate better with people who may not have the same understanding?

I am missing good, safe conversations. I am going to discuss this with my counselor and see what his take on the topic is as well. I almost feel sometimes as though I have stepped into a world that both makes sense and cannot be sensical at the same time. I had a realization a long, long time ago that life isn't what it seems and while many of the initial incidents were most likely brought about by traumatic events and/or some drug use - they have stuck with me and have helped me be a better being. There are definitely some unintended side effects - such as other beings perceiving my beliefs as uncaring, or unloving which has led to some instances occurring that could be construed as unhealthy by beings that may or may not be closely associated and certainly are not seeing the world through my being.

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:34 am

Hi,

What name would you like me to call you?

Reading your post, I’m not sure if what we can offer here is what you are after.

In these threads we are not just having an everyday conversation about awakening, and sharing our ideas, for that there are many other forums. Rather, each thread on this forum is a one-on-one investigation with a guide into how things actually are. Not what we believe, not what we intellectually understand, but rather looking at our immediate experience to notice what is already here, how things already simply are.
am not hoping to change anything, simply to just better understand and be able to communicate better with people who may not have the same understanding?
This forum is about doing an inquiry into the belief of a separate self, who is supposedly in charge of a small piece of life. But the inquiry is not done through understanding, since all understanding is intellectual, thought-based, which don’t have too much value. Since no amount of understanding could help us to see what is obviously here in this very moment, beneath concepts, beneath all understanding.
I am missing good, safe conversations. I am going to discuss this with my counselor and see what his take on the topic is as well.
Do you want to have a conversation or an injury? Since what I can offer you is an inquiry, but I’m not sure if this is what you are after.

Bellow you can see an example, how this inquiry would be like. You write something, and I pose you some questions to investigate your immediate experience to see if your thoughts / assumptions can stand up to scrutiny.
There are definitely some unintended side effects - such as other beings perceiving my beliefs as uncaring, or unloving which has led to some instances occurring that could be construed as unhealthy by beings that may or may not be closely associated and certainly are not seeing the world through my being.
Through your being? What do you mean by that?
What is your being in this very moment?
"I" believe that we are all connected and unconnected at the same time, "I" am slowly coming to realize that this connection is what keeps us all going even though we don't often acknowledge it
What do you mean by the word ‘me’ when you say “we are all connected and unconnected at the same time”?
What is this me, here now?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:38 pm

Hi,

What name would you like me to call you?

You can call me Jason
Reading your post, I’m not sure if what we can offer here is what you are after.
I am as sure as I can be that I am in the right spot for me
one-on-one investigation with a guide into how things actually are. Not what we believe, not what we intellectually understand, but rather looking at our immediate experience to notice what is already here, how things already simply are.
This would seem to equate to being an opportunity to better understand how things actually are and for both of us to grow and learn

Do you want to have a conversation or an injury? Since what I can offer you is an inquiry, but I’m not sure if this is what you are after.
I am defiantly looking for an inquiry - though it is difficult to imagine being able to understand things more and less at the same time but that does seem to be how things work. The more you inquire the more you unknow.


Through your being? What do you mean by that?

I mean through me, through my understanding of the world. Through my separateness and oneness.
/quote]?
My being at this very moment is me and not me. It is what I tell myself is me and what others tell me is me and yet I know that I am not really me but am simply a belief of what/who I am.

What do you mean by the word ‘me’

I am not sure I used the word me and I think that might be a typo? As to "we" all being connected and unconnected - I am trying to say that as humans we are all connected as we are all similar in biological make-up and yet all different just as we are all connected through our understanding of what/who we are based on the stories we tell ourselves or are told to us and yet we are all different in our understanding of what makes us us.

Jason

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:40 am

Hi Jason,

I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, so our conversation will be easier to read later for both of us, since your last post is difficult to read. Also, before pressing the ‘submit’ button, please check the ‘preview’ to make sure that everything is OK,

So here is the link to a video how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
I am defiantly looking for an inquiry - though it is difficult to imagine being able to understand things more and less at the same time but that does seem to be how things work. The more you inquire the more you unknow.
Seeing how things actually is NOT an understanding. You don’t have to understand it intellectually in order to see it experientially. Actually, all understanding in the way of noticing the simplicity of how things are.
I am not sure I used the word me and I think that might be a typo?
This is not a typo. You used this word because you believe, and more importantly FEEL that you are separate self in a world. Your explanation shows this clearly:
As to "we" all being connected and unconnected - I am trying to say that as humans we are all connected as we are all similar in biological make-up and yet all different just as we are all connected through our understanding of what/who we are based on the stories we tell ourselves or are told to us and yet we are all different in our understanding of what makes us us.
Please don’t try to avoid using the words of I/me/my/we etc. Since that doesn’t change anything. It’s not about the words, but how you FEEL.

So please tell me, what is it that you are believe yourself to be in this moment?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:03 pm

Hi Vivien,

I apologize for the delayed response here.... I know I stated I would probably be busy and able to respond about every other day. However things have been a bit challenging lately with my work, home, free time balance.

I think I am in a better spot now as it pertains to my balancing things :) However if you are unable to respond to me I understand.

So in your last message you asked me to watch the video and learn how to use the quote function - I believe I have that good now. With that being said you asked a question in your last post:
So please tell me, what is it that you are believe yourself to be in this moment?
This is the million dollar question we all ask ourselves isn't it?

I would say I am a collection of shared experiences with everyone and everything that I tell myself I have contact with or experiences with. I am my own being that really only knows what I know or who I know. It seems that I want to be a great many things, a great father, husband, employee, and a great me. I tell myself whether or not I am all these things and base some of those opinions of myself on what others seem to think of me, or pay me, or love me? I am simply a being that is and isn't at the same time. I am travelling through space/time as me, but I am not really travelling I just tell myself I am because I am not even sure the concept of time or space or space/time is even real. I mean it fits with what science seems to try to use to explain the world. I just always have a hard time believing that we are anything except simply being at any given instance?

Does any of that make a bit of sense?

Jason

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:52 am

Hi Jason,

I thought you changed your mind and you were gone. So I already took up another client in your place.

The thing is that if you cannot commit yourself to write at least every other day, but look EVERY DAY, repeatedly, many times a day, then honestly, there is no point of starting the investigation.

If you cannot commit yourself to look daily 50+ times in the midst of your busy life, then the chances to see through the self is very-very low.

This investigation has a momentum, but if currently you cannot make this as your priority then it’s best to do it some later time in the future, when you have more free time to fully focus on this.

So before replying to your comments, please consider this, and please let me know how you decide.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:19 am

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for your reply...I was waiting for my notification of your reply and hadn't seen it come in and decided to check today. I thought you moved on and I was out of luck.....now that I read your reply I can't shake the feeling that I am indeed out of luck.

I feel a bit conflicted even writing this right now as I want you to be able to help guide those that are in need and yet I feel as though I also do not want to lose this chance to dig into this a little more. That being said I am willing to give this a daily and even twice daily or more check in for your responses for the next month. I am not sure if you would be willing to commit that amount of time to me but if you are please respond.

Jason

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:37 am

Hi Jason,
Thank you for your reply...I was waiting for my notification of your reply and hadn't seen it come in and decided to check today.
I usually reply in 24 hours. So if you don’t hear from me in 24 hours, then please check the forum directly.
That being said I am willing to give this a daily and even twice daily or more check in for your responses for the next month.
Daily is enough. Twice a day would be too much, since you wouldn’t have enough time to deeply investigate each question.
I would say I am a collection of shared experiences with everyone and everything that I tell myself I have contact with or experiences with. I am my own being that really only knows what I know or who I know. It seems that I want to be a great many things, a great father, husband, employee, and a great me. I tell myself whether or not I am all these things and base some of those opinions of myself on what others seem to think of me, or pay me, or love me? I am simply a being that is and isn't at the same time. I am travelling through space/time as me, but I am not really travelling I just tell myself I am because I am not even sure the concept of time or space or space/time is even real. I mean it fits with what science seems to try to use to explain the world. I just always have a hard time believing that we are anything except simply being at any given instance?
So here you described what you BELIEVE yourself to be. Our investigation will be about looking at experience directly to see if these beliefs and assumptions can stand up to scrutiny.

We are going to start to investigate thoughts. Seeing thoughts clearly is essential part of the inquiry.

It is very important that you never think or ponder on the questions. Rather you actually have to look what you can see in your immediate experience before any thought interpretation.

Please always be thorough with looking. Look repeatedly several times before replying.

What do you do exactly in order to think?

How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?


Please be careful not to think about these questions, but actually sit and NOTICE how you think, how you do it exactly. So don’t go to theories, speculations, philosophy, or any learned information. Just notice what is happening here now in the immediacy of your own experience.

Please spend a whole day investigating these questions. Look again and again and again. Even if the answer seems to be clear, look more.

This investigation is about persistent repetition. Looking at the same thing again and again in experience, what brings about the realization.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:58 pm

Hello Vivien,

Thank you for replying and giving me another opportunity - I look forward to looking around and sharing interpretations of this journey with you....you asked:
What do you do exactly in order to think?
I don't do anything really, and yet it often seems like a lot. When you really get to the crux of the experience of thinking, it kind of just happens....for instance writing this message is simply me writing this message. I mean I use historical memories to guide what I want to say or how I want to convey the message but at the heart of it - I am simply writing based on my experience the answer I have to your question. I don't have to do anything in order to think - it just happens. I mean I am reflecting on my past memories of how things work and thinking about the future of how things work but right here and now - all those things just come to me, just pop into existence and then right back out of existence, though they are not really ever in existence are they? I can say they are, you can read what I wrote and all that really does is attempt to affirm a belief in something being real, when in reality we are simply existing and interacting with one another in a manner that has been repeated for thousands of years as an attempt to bring some type of order and understanding to what all this is.

Your next question:
How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?
I don't really do anything to "make" thoughts exist. I interpret the world around me and using the methods that have been agreed upon throughout our human existence, and organize those interpretations into what I believes other organisms will understand.

Example: If I want to write "something" to you to discuss, I order things in such a way that I hope will convey to you how I am interpreting the "something" and that will allow you to respond? Yet at the same time if I want to convey that same "something" to say a bird, or a dog - I have to then alter my method into what I believe will best allow for the dog or bird to understand what I am trying to share. Of course it is much more of a challenge with other organisms that haven't agreed upon the same method of conveyance and as such we don't go around sharing interpretations with these beings, even though they are every bit a part of our world as any other living organism.

Jason

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Vivien
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:43 am

Hi Jason,

Your replies are mostly intellectual, meaning that it’s not coming from looking at what is directly experienced, rather than from thinking and analysing. Many people start here, since this the predominant human state, when we pay much more attention to thought content rather than our immediate experience.

But in order to be successful in this inquiry, we have to change this.
You have to learn to shift your focus on observing your immediate experience, BEFORE any interpretation, theory or explanation. Just the simple and raw facts of what is.

Here is the basics of how to look.
You can tell me what is behind your back in two ways:
1. You can think about it, remember and tell me from thinking.
2. You can turn around, see it and describe.

So in this investigation I ask you to look at and describe what you experience and not what you think, remember or imagine. Can you see the difference?

When you look what is behind your back, or when you look at your socks, you are DIRECTLY EXPERIENCING what is seen. There is no inference, it’s direct and immediate. You know the color without any thought about the color. No thought is needed to see/know.

When you just remember what is behind your back and what color your socks are, that is in inference, it’s not a direct experience. It’s about having thoughts about it. All your information is coming from thoughts, and not from immediate experience (which is BEFORE thoughts).

Can you see this?


So with every single question I give you, I’m asking you to check your immediate experience, and never ever rely on thought, memory or imagination.

So I am going to give you the same questions, but this time don’t go to analysing the questions, since these are not intellectual questions that needs an answer in a form of a conclusion.

What do you do exactly in order to think?

How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
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Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:14 am

Hi Vivien,

I just happened to be in another meeting and simply feel a reply now works well for me.
Can you see this?
Yes
What do you do exactly in order to think?
Nothing, absolutely nothing....I just think.
How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?
Again - I do nothing to "birth" or make thoughts - they just happen.

Jason

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Flowing Energy

Postby Vivien » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:20 am

All right. You can see this, but I still ask you to stay with these questions at least for a whole day. And look repeatedly, even when the reply seems to be clear. It's about a constant and repeated looking of the same thing again and again (50-100 times a day) what brings about the realization.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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skilledone
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:16 am

Re: Flowing Energy

Postby skilledone » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:34 am

No problem...


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