Looking forward to dying.

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PirateFrench
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Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:19 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I believe the self is just a collection of memories, pictures and sensations perceived by consciousness. Consciousness is the non dual ground of being. The “self” is just an illusion.

What are you looking for at LU?
I’d like to experience this more than just understanding it intellectually. I’d like for it to be my natural state and not something I have to keep reminding myself of. I’m looking to have an experience that shatters the ego.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I really can’t say for sure, but if I had to guess it would be a series of questions that bring my attention to the awareness that’s hearing it. To point at the source rather than the ego, and do show what words can’t do.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve been practicing TM for about 3 years, I’ve read a lot of Rupert Spira, Alan Watts and Ken Wilber. I “get it” as far as I’m concerned. But I really want to live from it.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:24 am

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I can assist you with your inquiry.

This is going to be your inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realisation, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards no self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
And also post daily.
If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?

Could you please tell me what are you really looking for? How would your life change if you find that?
What are you hoping for to change?
What do you hope that should happen?
What is missing?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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PirateFrench
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:14 am

Ok, sorry I'm still getting used to the message board and how it works!
I can agree on your questions, and posting daily.

If I had to say what I'm looking for, it would be to have such an experience that it would allow what "is" to shine brighter than all the noise my mind makes. I've been meditating for years and feel confident that I can see the the distinction between what I am, and what the mind does, but it still creates very powerful illusions of separateness and I have a lot of intrusive thoughts surrounding death.

I'm not sure I want to "change" anything, but rather bring what is real to the forefront. At this stage I experience the vast, quiet space behind all thought, but it takes relentless effort throughout the day, and when I sit with the turbulent thoughts and feelings surrounding death, I feel I'm no match for it. I "surf" the negative thoughts and sensations but it's exhausting.

What I hope would happen is a such a shift in my perception that it takes little effort to rest in this moment as I truly am, and not was the countless illusions the self is weaving moment to moment.

I don't believe that anything is missing. I believe I am already whole, but it feels more intellectual than a deep and profound knowing.

Thank you so much for what you do. I've already felt a great deal of peace ever since finding this forum.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:12 am

Hi,

What name would you like me to call you?

I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, so our conversation will be easier to read later for both of us.
So here is the link to a video how to quote:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now.

Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.
If I had to say what I'm looking for, it would be to have such an experience that it would allow what "is" to shine brighter than all the noise my mind makes.
This mental noise is problematic only when it’s believed that it’s happening TO me. It’s disturbing MY peace.
So we will investigate if thoughts actually happen to someone, or they are just free floating, without being anchored to anything or anyone.
At this stage I experience the vast, quiet space behind all thought, but it takes relentless effort throughout the day,
This sounds that the belief in a separate self is still lurking there who is making relentless effort to get to the state to the ‘quite space behind thoughts’. So there is still someone who is trying to make this happen.
and when I sit with the turbulent thoughts and feelings surrounding death, I feel I'm no match for it. I "surf" the negative thoughts and sensations but it's exhausting.
Yes, I hear you. There is an apparent someone here who is trying to surf the negative thoughts and sensations, but finds it exhausting and concludes the “I am no match for it”.

Whenever there is a story with unpleasant sensations that sense of self becomes stronger. But when there is suffering, even in just a subtle form of wanting or resisting something, it’s not just because there is a belief in a self. Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added on narrative.

And the personality stays almost completely intact when the self is seen through. All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through. These most likely will stay, however, they are much more accessible and easier to work with after seeing through the illusion. This is just the first step, just the beginning, and not the end. The falling away of conditioning can last at the end of the organism.

Peace is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about seeing that emotions don’t belong to anything. They are free floating without being tied to or anchored to anything.

Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case. Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual. Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
The title of your thread is: Looking forward to dying
But who would die? Do you assume that there is a real separate self here now, and this self could die? Or that there is an ego here now, which could die? But how could a fiction die? Can something that has never existed in reality actually die? Can the mirage of an oasis in the desert die, just because it’s been recognized for to be an illusion? Or the mirage can and will stay there but with the knowing that it’s not real?

The thing is that it cannot be know in advance how it will be. Why? Because all expectations come on behalf of a separate self, who is always in a search for peace, happiness, lack of fear and suffering. We simply cannot imagine it, since we cannot step outside from the separate self’s perspective. We can only imagine it within the dream of me. The illusionary me is simply unable to imagine how it would be if it were discovered to be just a fictional character and not a reality. It can only imagine what it wants for itself.

Please ponder on my comments to see your expectations from a different perspective. Because what I can say for sure, it won’t be how you imagine it to be. Since it cannot be known in advance. It’s never how one imagines it to be.

So it would be the best, if you could drop all your expectations, and just to be a clean slate.

Please, put all the books and videos aside, we are going to be focusing on what you see, rather than what you have learned. Can we agree on this?

Before starting, please read my above comments carefully a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?

I've been meditating for years and feel confident that I can see the the distinction between what I am,
So what are you? Can you describe yourself without using any spiritual language you might have picked up during the years? Just describing the raw experience of yourself?
but it still creates very powerful illusions of separateness
So what is the experience of separateness, here now, in this moment?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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PirateFrench
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:04 am

Thank you, Vivien. My name is Brent.
Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation.
Yes, absolutely. Reading this gives me the impression that I'm unaware of how deeply my conditioned response to compare and contrast is. I've done a great deal of reading and contemplating over the years, so starting with a clean slate with zero expectations sounds like a fun challenge!
This mental noise is problematic only when it’s believed that it’s happening TO me. It’s disturbing MY peace.
This definitely resonates with me. The most turbulent or intrusive thoughts feel so personal, and thus add to the story that "I" am a victim OF "them".
Suffering happens when certain stimuli poke or touch our ‘wounds inside’. Those wounds are not a person/self. The self is just an added on narrative.
NOW we're talkin...so, suffering occurs when stimuli poke or touch internal wounds, but that still doesn't require a separate self. I really want to hear more about this. Doing some introspection now, it naturally seems like there is a separate self who is suffering because the wound was touched. Is this the "something that is happening", before the separate illusory self comes in to narrate and weave the story together?
The self is just an added on narrative.
All the conditionings from childhood, all the traumas, all the gathered emotional pains won’t dissolve in an instant just because the self is seen through.
Understood.
Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about seeing that emotions don’t belong to anything. They are free floating without being tied to or anchored to anything.
I would really love to experience this more than just understanding it intellectually. Am I starting off on the wrong foot by having a desire to change my perception?
But who would die?
I like your mirage metaphor here. I can't say I BELIEVE in a separate self that should or can die. But I can't say that I don't not believe either. I just don't have much experience of not being tied to this separate self that I WISH would or could die. I'm so tired of it. Is that statement alone presupposing it's existence?
The thing is that it cannot be know in advance how it will be
Absolutely.
So what are you?
When I'm still and look directly at what IS right now, the best I can come up with is "I am conscious", or "aware". When I put my attention on a focal point like sound, I've had what I would call transcendent experiences of being "listening" or "hearing" itself. No one in here that is separate from the sound being made. But I naturally fall back into this thinking mode of analyzing and getting lost in thought without being aware that I even left that place to begin with. I want to say that I understand that I can't "leave" any place, but it's hard talking about it without using language like that at the moment.
So what is the experience of separateness, here now, in this moment?
The separateness now in this moment is the story that I've been listening to since I can remember. You, and everyone else here is "in on it" and I just don't get it. There are those who "get it" and I can't seem to. Everyone is moving onto Heaven or Nirvana and I'm stuck here in duality or hell. I don't live from this place day in and day out, but it FEELS like my natural resting place. Or that I have to challenge this idea with inquiry like your'e helping me do here.

Thank you, Vivien!

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:28 am

Hi Brent,
NOW we're talkin...so, suffering occurs when stimuli poke or touch internal wounds, but that still doesn't require a separate self. I really want to hear more about this. Doing some introspection now, it naturally seems like there is a separate self who is suffering because the wound was touched. Is this the "something that is happening", before the separate illusory self comes in to narrate and weave the story together?
Yes, but it’s not enough to understand this intellectually, this needs to be seen in experience. We will get there.
I would really love to experience this more than just understanding it intellectually. Am I starting off on the wrong foot by having a desire to change my perception?
But who wants to change its perception? Brent? An I? A self? An entity?
What is it exactly that has this desire?


Please don’t think about the answer, rather look here now and notice the thing that is presently here and has a desire.

What owns perception? Here now look. Is there someone owning perception?
Is there someone here that perception is happening TO?

I like your mirage metaphor here. I can't say I BELIEVE in a separate self that should or can die. But I can't say that I don't not believe either. I just don't have much experience of not being tied to this separate self that I WISH would or could die. I'm so tired of it. Is that statement alone presupposing it's existence?
Exactly. In the moment when you wish it to die, you ALREADY believe that it exists, and this thing has to die.
I want to say that I understand that I can't "leave" any place
The thing is that it’s not enough to understand this.

It’s not just that you cannot leave any place, it’s rather about if there is a you at all that could move between places?
The separateness now in this moment is the story that I've been listening to since I can remember. You, and everyone else here is "in on it" and I just don't get it. There are those who "get it" and I can't seem to. Everyone is moving onto Heaven or Nirvana and I'm stuck here in duality or hell. I don't live from this place day in and day out, but it FEELS like my natural resting place.
You assume that there is a me, a person separate from that place you want to get to.

But what is it that could move there? Here now, point to the person who could possibly move there. Where is it?

Please take your time with these questions. Make sure that you investigate the here and now experience several times before replying. Stay with these questions for a whole day, looking at them again and again.

Let this be a deep exploration.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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PirateFrench
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:13 pm

Hi Vivien,

I spent last night and all of this morning contemplating your questions. I've been surprised at how much frustration and confusion has come up while contemplating these. Often times it feels like "this is it! and yet I don't feel any different", and it'll just turn out that I'm lost in thinking.

I've been constantly returning to this moment over and over again, just putting my attention on the sense of my body, and the sounds of what's happening outdoors but I don't feel any differently. Then I'll get lost in a thought about how I'm not supposed to expect anything and then off in thinking I go again. It's very frustrating.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:57 am

Hi Brent,
Often times it feels like "this is it! and yet I don't feel any different", and it'll just turn out that I'm lost in thinking.
Do you expect an event to happen, when you suddenly see it, and then it’s over?
I've been constantly returning to this moment over and over again, just putting my attention on the sense of my body, and the sounds of what's happening outdoors but I don't feel any differently.
What difference do you expect to happen?

Which feeling should change?
What should you feel instead?

What is the problem with this present moment experience if you don’t think about it?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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PirateFrench
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:07 pm

Hi Vivien,

I have to say that yes, I do expect something to happen. What would be "Unleashed" if nothing happens or changes?
I just expect to "see" or glimpse literally anything other than my normal waking state mind that I've been accustomed to using whether or not I realize it.
Do you expect an event to happen, when you suddenly see it, and then it’s over?
Not necessarily like this, but I have an expectation that I'll "get it" and know there is a state behind the thinking / narrating mind.

Can I ask what it was like before and after you understood this? Or maybe before you came to guide others?
What is the problem with this present moment experience if you don’t think about it?
I feel like when I enter the present moment, I experience a space without thought, where I feel like there is no "listener" or "watcher" and only listening and watching taking place. When I experience this I'm not needing or wanting anything. If I have to stick with words though it feels like I drift back into thought and "lose" that seat of awareness.

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:50 am

Hi Brent,
I have to say that yes, I do expect something to happen. What would be "Unleashed" if nothing happens or changes?
Yes, there is a change, some by-products, but it’s different for everybody.
But the problem is that many people are chasing the by-products, instead of noticing what is here now.

And it seems that this is what is happening with you too. You are seeking for the by-products, and you are measuring what is being seen according to those by-products.

But if you expect any by-product, then you can miss the whole thing.
I wrote a blog post about this, please read it:

https://fadingveiling.com/2020/09/17/se ... awakening/
Not necessarily like this, but I have an expectation that I'll "get it" and know there is a state behind the thinking / narrating mind.
Seeing that there is no separate self in reality is NOT a state. It’s simply an experiential recognition, but it’s not a different state than what is normally happening.

And you will never ever be able to get it.
It’s impossible.
Since the one who wants to get it, is the illusionary self.
And illusion cannot realize that it’s an illusion.
So awakening is about the discovery, that the one who wants to get it is simply not there.

What I’m also seeing from your replies is impatience.
But the grass won’t grow faster by pulling on it.

Seeing that there is no separate self is not a single-one glimpse.
It’s not about seeing it once and then everything is over.
Far from it.

Seeing it needs to happen a lot, a LOT, repeatedly, in order for the belief in the self to fall away.
Sometimes it means looking and seeing the same thing again and again THOUSANDS of times.
Can I ask what it was like before and after you understood this? Or maybe before you came to guide others?
I don’t really want to answer this questions, since this would just give you more ideas about the by-products, something to seek, and hoping to get in the future.

You have to forget about the by-products.
Yes, there will be by-products, but you have to let go of them.
Please contemplate my blog post about this topic.
I feel like when I enter the present moment,
Here is another blog post about ‘being in the present moment’.

Please read it carefully, and investigate with each question, deeply.
https://fadingveiling.com/2020/10/08/how-to-be-present/
If I have to stick with words though it feels like I drift back into thought and "lose" that seat of awareness.
But there is an assumption that there is somebody who is losing the ‘seat of awareness’ and get back to thoughts.
And this is exactly what needs to be questioned and deeply investigated.

If there is actually someone moving between two states: awareness and thoughts. But is there?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:33 pm

Hi Vivien,

Thank you again for your responses. I really appreciate your time and commitment to this work (if you can call it work)

I spent the weekend really contemplating the subtle shift in what was doing the perceiving. I've been less focused on the "Brent" here with all of the desires, wants and dislikes and instead have been resting in the experience of those thoughts, sensations and perceptions. Your blog posts have helped point to the awareness behind everything that "I" want.

When living from this place I can see how life is seemingly just happening and not only am I observing it, but I must be the very thing I'm observing. Is this correct?

I feel much calmer and more at peace with this subtle realization that it's all happening now and of course can't be happening in the past or some perceived future where "I" wake up. I am already awake but have been in this dream state, navigating the world with this character that I for sure thought was real and important.

What you said about not getting it once really helped me. Reading a lot of people's experiences they tend to sound like the "saw it" and that was it. No one really talks about returning to this real place behind it all that is only happening now.
But there is an assumption that there is somebody who is losing the ‘seat of awareness’ and get back to thoughts.
How would you better define this? There still seems to be a focus of my attention that I need to gently "bring back" to what really is rather than the fake perceived self. I understand how there's no where to go, but my conditioning will have me believe I am a separate self "in here" who needs to get "somewhere".

I understand how I can never leave the present moment. That's pretty absurd. So what happens when I FEEL like I'm not in the present moment? Is it like being lost in a dream?

Thank you again, Vivien!

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Vivien
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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:44 am

Hi Brent,
When living from this place I can see how life is seemingly just happening and not only am I observing it, but I must be the very thing I'm observing. Is this correct?
I’d rather answer with questions.
What is it exactly that could live from the ‘place of awareness’?

You missed the last question in my previous post, which is pointing to the same belief:
If there is actually someone moving between two states: awareness and thoughts?
not only am I observing it, but I must be the very thing I'm observing. Is this correct?
This is an intellectual question, so I won’t give you an intellectual answer.

What is this I that observes?
Is there an observer? Where exactly?
I feel much calmer and more at peace with this subtle realization that it's all happening now and of course can't be happening in the past or some perceived future where "I" wake up. I am already awake but have been in this dream state, navigating the world with this character that I for sure thought was real and important.
Dear Brent, the thing is that you took on the words in my comments as a new belief. You might not see it (yet), but this is just logic.

You are NOT already awake.
Since there is NO YOU to be awake.

Are you open to the possibility that you are misinterpreting the pointers and take them on as new beliefs?
I understand how I can never leave the present moment. That's pretty absurd. So what happens when I FEEL like I'm not in the present moment? Is it like being lost in a dream?
Who is it that could be lost in the dream?
Who? And where is this one? Show him / it to me.


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:59 pm

Hi Vivien,
Thank you for you response. I want to try and just contemplate your questions here without referring back to my previous posts.
What is it exactly that could live from the ‘place of awareness’?
There can't be any "place" of awareness. Everything is taking place within this One Awareness. Nothing can live separate or be apart from it.
If there is actually someone moving between two states: awareness and thoughts?
There is no one moving between states. There are no states. There is no "one" to move anywhere.
What is this I that observes?
Is there an observer? Where exactly?
The I that observes is Consciousness. There is no observer. Only thoughts, sensations and pictures happening within consciousness.
You are NOT already awake.
Since there is NO YOU to be awake.
I don't know how to approach this one.
Are you open to the possibility that you are misinterpreting the pointers and take them on as new beliefs?
I know that I am and I'm not sure how or why.
Who is it that could be lost in the dream?
Who? And where is this one? Show him / it to me.
I understand that no one can be lost because there IS no one. But the illusion of being separate and looking out from my eyes is still so deeply conditioned I can't seem to grasp this other than logically. There's no one that could be lost and yet I feel lost.

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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:08 am

Hi Brent,
Everything is taking place within this One Awareness.
Is this something you experientially see, or rather this is an intellectual understanding you’ve gathered through the year?
The I that observes is Consciousness.
How do you know this?
Can you literally SEE consciousness being an I?
Or rather this is just an intellectual information you’ve learned from others?
V: You are NOT already awake.
Since there is NO YOU to be awake.
B: I don't know how to approach this one.
The problem is Brett, that you’ve gathered all sorts of ideas during the years, and you take those ideas at face value. This happens to many people. It’s very easy to conceptualize the notion of awareness and consciousness, and make it into an idea, an image that now you believe in. Actually this is what happens to many seekers.

And you don’t know how to approach my above comment, since it doesn’t fit into the ideas you have.

So why not drop ALL of your ideas, and just look what is here now?
I understand that no one can be lost because there IS no one. But the illusion of being separate and looking out from my eyes is still so deeply conditioned I can't seem to grasp this other than logically. There's no one that could be lost and yet I feel lost.
OK, so the issue is with this understanding. The understanding that there is no one is just an intellectual understanding, which has no real value. Why? Because it’s just another idea to believe in, and not an experiential recognition of it being a fact.

You simply cannot think yourself into seeing that there is no separate self.
No amount of thinking and concepts will help with this.
Why? Because the illusion itself is created by thoughts. You are trying to grasp it with the same tool that is creating the illusion in the first place. And this is a dead end.

Reality is here now, UNDERNEATH all concepts.
There's no one that could be lost and yet I feel lost.
What you feel that is the truth for you. It doesn’t matter how much you repeat that there is no one there, while you still FEEL that there is one.

What you feel that is the truth for you, and NOT what you think.


So when I ask a question, please don’t write about what you THINK about that topic.
Rather, QUESTION everything you think you know and check if your intellectual knowledge is in line with experience.
Since only experience can show what is actually real.

So with every single question I give you, you have look at your own experience.
Please don’t write anything that you cannot see clearly here now, in this very moment.

Who is it that could be lost in the dream?
Who? And where is this one? Show him to me.


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: Looking forward to dying.

Postby PirateFrench » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:48 pm

Hi Vivien, thank you for your questions.
Is this something you experientially see, or rather this is an intellectual understanding you’ve gathered through the year?
I mostly understand it intellectually, with some lived experience.
How do you know this?
Can you literally SEE consciousness being an I?
Or rather this is just an intellectual information you’ve learned from others?
I cannot see consciousness being an I. There is just space where thoughts occur, and the seeing of the thoughts makes it feel like a individual self is seeing them.

I have the thought "Vivien can't see THESE thoughts, so I must be separate than her". Is there any reason this awareness doesn't have access to the thoughts you hear?

What holds the "Brent" story together? If Brent is an illusion, is awareness the one 'fabric' that binds all of my experiences like a transparent web?
So why not drop ALL of your ideas, and just look what is here now?
What's here now it the low hum of electricity. My body's weight on the chair, my feet on the floor, my fingertips on the keyboard and nice even breathing.
Because the illusion itself is created by thoughts. You are trying to grasp it with the same tool that is creating the illusion in the first place.
Absolutely.
What you feel that is the truth for you, and NOT what you think.
I still feel there is a self here. I intellectually and even experientially have seen that there is only thoughts, perceptions and emotions. But I can't deny that it 100% feels like there is a person here doing the perceiving.

Not necessarily a SELF, but a localization of separateness.
This awareness here is separate from my friend's in Michigan. Separate from yours.

Not saying this is true of course, there's just a clear gap between what I know from experience and logic to be true, vs what my experience is right now.


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