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Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:39 pm
by Kirk2
When I say “I am present” I am referring to experience. I’m not communicating an idea about presence. Although it must arise as an idea in order for us to communicate.

Would you not agree that our ideas are not problems to be discarded, nor do we need to engage with ideas at all, they are just what they are, to be that which is sought.

And the language of nonduality is not a problem. All language has its limitations. As long as we are speaking from our current experience and we stay in touch with that to which the words refer.

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:06 pm
by Kirk2
Perhaps if the language I am using is not familiar to you, it might be practical to switch guides? I’m open to going further to see if we can meet in understanding, and if not, perhaps it would be possible to switch to another guide?

It has been recommended to me someone named Jon or Ilona. I don’t know the difference.

Thank you,

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:11 pm
by Bananafish
My self is not perceived. It is known.

Ok. Could you tell how it is known, and how it can be known without being perceived?

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:51 pm
by Kirk2
What I am calling my Self, the Self, is knowing itself. Self-aware being. Knowing-Being. It is known not as an object of experience. Only objects can be perceived.

I, the one that knows experience, is not itself an experience. Experience is known, or perceived. we are aware of experience. We know experience is. There is isness, and that isness or being is known. That’s all there is, the one divine being as it is.

You are aware of, or know, the images on the screen now. All there is to those images is seeing. All there is to seeing is perceiving. All there is to perceiving is knowing. all there is to knowing is knowing - as it is.

that is the “substance” of reality, the only reality, the truth that arises first in the mind as the thought “I Am”. Which first is felt in experience as a “feeling of being.”

I just read the LU app, and can understand whey there might be some confusion, a.e.b : “Is there such a thing as awareness in which things appear? Is awareness ever actually experienced, or is it just an idea, an abstraction? Does it actually exist?”

And the answer is awareness is not a thing, it is not an limited object in space or time, so doesn’t exist, or stand out from. It is the infinite, ever present being as it is. It is therefore not experienced as an object. It is an Experienceless, or contentless experience that is known by itself. it is the foundational knowledge upon which all other knowledge is built. it is not “just an idea, or an abstraction.” It is the one and only reality.

Here is another quote from the app: “Is there such a thing as awareness in which things appear? Where is the division between awareness and appearances? There is no division between awareness and appearances. All that can be seen are appearances.”

Here again, that which knows appearances is not itself an appearance. The space that contains objects is not itself an object. Yes, there is no division between awareness and appearances. All that can be seen is seeing. And the only “thing” there is to seeing, is the knowing of it. But we never find the it called seeing apart from knowing. You can’t see any appearance unless it is known. Seeing, and the knowing of seeing, are synonymous.

Here is another quote: “Look again at what is happening. Can you actually see awareness is doing the looking? Or is awareness just another word for the looking happening? Look again, is there something doing the looking?”

This gets a little closer. Rightly inferred, Awareness is not doing the looking. That would be duality. Awareness is not the subject, and looking the object. Awareness and experiencing (looking happening) are Not Two. you can’t have experiencing, or looking happening, without being aware. You are aware before, during, and following all limited experiences, or happenings.

“The universe unfolding” is how reality is described in another place on this web site. All that is experienced in objective reality, when refracted through the limitation of the sense-perceptions, we can call an unfolding universe. The one divine being in motion. the activity of consciousness, or the movement of being. Knowing in motion.

- - - -

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:03 pm
by Kirk2
I know that there is no “separate I”. Meaning an objective “I” that has or does experience. I and experience are not two. It’s just the one happening.

That’s what’s being taught here, as far as I can tell. Tracing the path directly back to that which we refer to when we normally use the word “I”, and finding that who we think we are just isn’t here. There is no reference in objective experience for an “I” that has experience or does experience.

There is just experiencing. And experiencing is not nothing. But it is not a thing, either, when we don’t filter it through the limiting lens of thinking, remembering, and imagining. It is just a “happening”, a moving, a flowing isness. that flowing isness is known through the sense-perception apparatus.

But that is not the end of the story. There is another step, common to the tantric path, of the collapse of the duality of knowing and experiencing into pure knowing. Knowing with no antonym. God. Pure presence. divine Being.

It doesn’t matter what we call it, because no word on the menu can give us a satisfactory meal.


Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:09 am
by Bananafish
Hi. :) Sorry, but there seems to be some misunderstanding; we don't teach anything here.
If you think you learned something from reading any of the threads or quotes, please throw them away
completely. That is like coating ignorance over coating.

I might be a bit too blunt, but this is very important if you really are to
see through the illusion.


Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:38 pm
by Kirk2
Who, or what, sees through illusion, Kento? If there seems to be a misunderstanding, surely it would be innocent, in the play.

Thank you for the exchange.

Warm Regards,

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:43 pm
by Bananafish
Who, or what is seeing this reply?
Could you pinpoint and answer?

Thank you. :)


Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:59 pm
by Kirk2
I do

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:05 pm
by Kirk2
I, the infinite ever presence. There is no one who sees, just seeing. Yet seeing is temporary, finite, limited in time. And that which knows seeing, is not itself seen.

That’s me.

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:14 pm
by Kirk2
I Am seeing
There is seeing
Seeing is
I Am aware that there is seeing

These are all synonymous.

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:24 pm
by Bananafish
Are what you wrote something you learned from books, videos, or
meetings? Is it an original statement based on how things are seen?

I, the infinite ever presence.

What makes you say that it's "infinite" and "ever"?
Does it change, or is it the same 24/7?

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:57 pm
by Kirk2
I am speaking from experience, as it is now. I have not read a book in 3 years.

It can be difficult to tell via reading over the internet, as the felt understanding may not shine as brightly when refracted through the limiting channel of the computer.

The truth speaks as it does, in its myriad ways and means.

That which knows is knowing. Knowing looks at itself, and find no objective qualities. No size, no shape, no color, no weight, no border nor edge, no thing at all. Therefore, it can be said to be without limit. Limitless. Unlimited. Infinite.

That comes from looking at one’s direct experience. What we look at and where we look from, are one.

Knowing looks for a limit in time. It finds no beginning, no ending. Just now. Isness. Ever presence. Eternity. Not in time or not of time. Timeless. The word “ever” means at all times, or always. It reflects an effort to express timelessness with words.

That comes from looking at one’s direct experience as the test of reality. Direct - meaning Unfiltered through thought, imagination, or memory.

Eternal Presence
Knowing Being
Amness / Isness
Divine Being
God Consciousness
Buddha Nature
I Am

Words, pointers, referring to that which has no referent. The placeless place from which this exchange arises, the seeing with which it is seen, the void into which it dissolves.

Pure Love, loving itself in the form of a dialogue. Inviting itself back to itself.

- - -
Do you feel the truth in what I say? Can you tell in reading it that there is no call for an approach or a technique? That nothing needs an intervention?

I must use concepts with you to communicate, but those concepts are not meant as means to the end of right seeing, but come from the place of right seeing as an expression of that seeing.

It may be difficult to tell the difference in this context.

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:04 pm
by Bananafish
Thanks. :)

How do all those you've written so far relate to eating a nice dinner
with your family? Could you tell bit about that?

Re: Hello, seeking guidance

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:06 pm
by Kirk2
You ask if the I changes, or is 24/7? The I is both changeless and changing. Knowing knows only itself and is without objective qualities. so any reference to the word “change” implies starting with objective reality as primary, rather than as a byproduct of consciousness.

that’s why we say it is “unchanging” - we are always using the word “un”. I, the I that I essentially am, am changeless, unchanging, imperturbable, I can’t be stained, harmed, influenced, negotiated or trifled with.

The Flow of life is ever fresh, right out of the oven, in constant flux, like an ocean current. But there is nothing to the current apart from the ocean. It is not a separate current. Likewise, there isn’t a self that is separate from knowing. But there is a flowing of thinking, sensing, and perceiving - what we call experiencing. Experiencing flowing is the motion of the ocean of awareness - of that which is aware. That which is most intimate to us, which everyone calls “I”. We all share the same name, the same Being.