Looking for the Guide Taran

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Fri Dec 18, 2020 11:28 am

Hi Taran
as far as I am concerned I am awake
What exactly is it that is awake?
No idea
Where is the "I" that is concerned?
No where there is no “I"
what can be done other than be in it’s arising?
To “be” with arisings points to their being an experiencer of experience. Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
No
Look carefully at the following:
A thought is known, right?
Its experienced like an object passing through
Where does thought (known) end, and the knowing of it begin?
I don’t know
Can you find the dividing line between the knowing of thought and thought itself?
“I" have a sense of some kind of observer separate from the thought itself but its not a solid thing. Its definitely not a dividing line its as if they are sort of arising and floating away together

I am experiencing what I am experiencing”.
where is the “I” that is experiencing “what I am experiencing” – did you look to see if you could find that I?
Yes “I" looked and there is no “I".

Did you look to see if that was all thought content?
Yes "I” looked and found it to be all thought content. Its just that “I” don’t know how else to tell you about “my” DE and about my feelings/experience which you asked me previously to do.


Are you afraid of getting the answers wrong?
No
There is no wrong or right answer from direct experience.
I agree
My experience in DE is one of watching(sensing) the DE
where is the ‘My’?


There isn't one. There is no “my”.

can you find a watcher or senser of direct experience?
No - I cannot find a separate watcher or senser but its as if there a sort of membrane or breath wrapped around the DE or the thought is a whisper wrapped around the DE - its very subtle
Direct experience is purely “colour” (image), sound, smell, sensation, taste and the knowing of thought. It helps if you can use brackets or “speech marks” to clarify the experience.

e.g. colour (thought content “glass ball”) etc BUT make sure you also look to see if glass ball can be found, otherwise we can get into a game of just re-languaging everything, rather than looking closely at experience.

touch and hear
Can you find “touching” or just sensation, can you find hearing or only “sound”?


I find sensation.... “touching" is thought content
I find sound .... “hearing" is thought content

Thanks
Vx

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:12 pm

Hi V

Thank you for your response, and again apologies for my late reply.
as far as I am concerned I am awake
What exactly is it that is awake?
No idea
So can find anyone or anything that is awake...or is that also a thought story...a concept? Is awakening happening to anyone or is it simply happening? Can you find an "I" that is awakening?

Where does "no idea" sit as actual experience?

Look carefully at the following:
A thought is known, right?
Its experienced like an object passing through
What form or shape does thought take exactly? What is it made of? Please describe in precise detail what a thought actually looks like. Does thought have dimensions, depth, colour, structure, weight? Is it possible to describe a thought? Please look and 'find' a thought. There may be a label 'thought' and some mirage-like arisings, but can a thought actually be seen? Can you see that even the label 'thought' is also a mirage-like arising?

I want you to look carefully....can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?

Is a thought actually experienced like an object, or is it simply known?

Where does thought (known) end, and the knowing of it begin?
I don’t know
Try this - please sit down and observe your thoughts as they arise and subside...where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin? Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of a thought and the thought itself? Or is the knowing and the thought = one and the same?

Let me know what you find.
Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:44 am

PS ....sorry, just realised I'd missed some of my message out

its as if there is a sort of membrane or breath wrapped around the DE or the thought is a whisper wrapped around the DE - its very subtle
Thank you for that explanation, I appreciate these are metaphors for your experience, but I'd like you to watch you thoughts during the day ( & days ahead), and see if you can find any evidence of this 'membrane or breath' ....or whether this is just another thought about what is happening.
I find sensation..... "touching" is thought content.
I find sound ..... "hearing" is thought content.
Super! To quote the Bahiya of the Bark cloth sutta... The Buddha says '"Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognized will be merely what is cognized.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya." :-)




Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:48 pm

Hi Taran
So can find anyone or anything that is awake...or is that also a thought story...a concept?

its a thought , a concept - thought content
Is awakening happening to anyone or is it simply happening?
its simply happening
Can you find an "I" that is awakening?
no
Where does "no idea" sit as actual experience?
its thought - thought content
What form or shape does thought take exactly? What is it made of?
I do not think thought is a shape or form. I think (but this is only thought content of course) I think thought is formless and shapeless just as sensations are formless and shapeless
thought is like touch and taste and sound and smell - its comes and goes and is formless and shapeless
Please describe in precise detail what a thought actually looks like.
Not possible
Does thought have dimensions, depth, colour, structure, weight?

No
Is it possible to describe a thought?
no
Please look and 'find' a thought. There may be a label 'thought' and some mirage-like arisings, but can a thought actually be seen? Can you see that even the label 'thought' is also a mirage-like arising?
Thought is a label, it cannot be seen
Even the label just arrises in the same way as the thought does
I want you to look carefully....can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?

Thought cannot be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...I am not sure if its even 'simply known' - as what is 'knowing' except another thought?
Is a thought actually experienced like an object, or is it simply known?
It is not experienced like an object
Its only known in so much as a sensation is known
Try this - please sit down and observe your thoughts as they arise and subside...where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin? Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of a thought and the thought itself? Or is the knowing and the thought = one and the same?
the knowing and the thought is one and the same
Thank you for that explanation, I appreciate these are metaphors for your experience, but I'd like you to watch you thoughts during the day ( & days ahead), and see if you can find any evidence of this 'membrane or breath' ....or whether this is just another thought about what is happening.
There is no membrane or breath - that was just my way of explaining my experience to you - metaphors are all just thought content

Thanks
Vx

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:23 pm

Hi V
Thank you for your responses. Well done.
What form or shape does thought take exactly? What is it made of?
I do not think thought is a shape or form. I think (but this is only thought content of course) I think thought is formless and shapeless just as sensations are formless and shapeless
thought is like touch and taste and sound and smell - its comes and goes and is formless and shapeless
Exactly! Nothing has a shape or form. Nothing is solid or permanent.
I want you to look carefully....can a thought be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...or is it simply known?
Thought cannot be seen, felt, smelled, tasted or heard...I am not sure if its even 'simply known' - as what is 'knowing' except another thought?

Is there not a "knowing" (you might call it 'an awareness') of thought, sound, colour, sensation, taste and smell (the known) when they arise?

When you drop the label ‘thought’…what remains? Is there a division between "Knowing" and "known". Or are they one and the same thing?..... i.e. the "Knowingknown".

Since you have seen that thought really has no stand alone substance and is not a stand alone thing… can it be different or other than your (not V) "Knowing of/as" it? Are you able to separate a thought from the “knowing” of it? Are you able to separate a sound from the knowing of it?

Can you see now how it is impossible for something in experience to be 'unknown'?


Now, please do this experiment with sound. Where does sound end and the knowing of it begin?

Sit quietly and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust. Now listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Choose one sound and focus on that one sound.

1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than sound? In other words is there hearing AND sound…is there a border between hearing and sound, or there is simply hearing/sound ie hearingsound – no borders, no divide?
2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only sound?
3) Can an 'I', a 'body’, a ‘person' be found? Or are there only thoughts about these, and thoughts about a ‘something’ that is hearing sound?

Where does sound stop and the ‘hearing’ of it begin?
Can a 'hearer' ever be found in sound? Or is there simply sound?

Can a divide be found between the sound (which is known) and the knowing of sound? Or is the knowing and known, one and the same = knowingknown?


If no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . is anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?

Are you ever aware of two experiences or more at 'any given time'? When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a 'knowing of sound' experience? If not, then how can the sound be known through hearing?

Try this - please sit down and observe your thoughts as they arise and subside...where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin? Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of a thought and the thought itself? Or is the knowing and the thought = one and the same?
the knowing and the thought is one and the same
Yes! So can an experiencer of experience be found? Can a separation be found between experiencer and experience...or is experiencerexperience one and the same?

You're doing really well and I look forward to your responses.
Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:45 am

Hi Taran
Is there not a "knowing" (you might call it 'an awareness') of thought, sound, colour, sensation, taste and smell (the known) when they arise?
yes that's an awareness - the knowing part comes after the awareness and that is a thought - but I am happy to use the term knowing and known for awareness and aware so we are talking the same language
When you drop the label ‘thought’…what remains? Is there a division between "Knowing" and "known". Or are they one and the same thing?..... i.e. the "Knowingknown".
they are the same
Since you have seen that thought really has no stand alone substance and is not a stand alone thing… can it be different or other than your (not V) "Knowing of/as" it?
I don't understand this question
Are you able to separate a thought from the “knowing” of it?
yes
Are you able to separate a sound from the knowing of it?
yes
Can you see now how it is impossible for something in experience to be 'unknown'?
absolutely yes
Now, please do this experiment with sound. Where does sound end and the knowing of it begin?
They are intrinsically linked

Sit quietly and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust. Now listen to the sounds in the room where you are, or sounds from outside. Choose one sound and focus on that one sound.
1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than sound? In other words is there hearing AND sound…is there a border between hearing and sound, or there is simply hearing/sound ie hearingsound – no borders, no divide?
2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only sound?
Theres no border - its just hearing/sound
3) Can an 'I', a 'body’, a ‘person' be found? Or are there only thoughts about these, and thoughts about a ‘something’ that is hearing sound?
no "I" or "body" or "person" to be found, only thoughts about these and about something hearing sound.
Where does sound stop and the ‘hearing’ of it begin?
Sound doesnt stop and hearing doesnt begin they are together hearing/sound and sound/hearing
Can a 'hearer' ever be found in sound? Or is there simply sound?
No there is only sound
Can a divide be found between the sound (which is known) and the knowing of sound? Or is the knowing and known, one and the same = knowingknown?
Knowing and known are one and the same - knowing/known
If no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . is anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?

its all speculation, ideas, beliefs and ideas - all thoughts

[
quote]Are you ever aware of two experiences or more at 'any given time'? When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a
'knowing of sound' experience? If not, then how can the sound be known through hearing?
[/quote]
awareness seems to be on one thing at a time
experience and knowing seem to be at the same time
Try this - please sit down and observe your thoughts as they arise and subside...where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin?
the thought and the knowing are together
Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of a thought and the thought itself? Or is the knowing and the thought = one and the same?
one and the same - the knowing and the thought is one and the same
So can an experiencer of experience be found?
no
Can a separation be found between experiencer and experience...
no
or is experiencerexperience one and the same?
experiencer/experience are one and the same

Thanks
Vx

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:46 am

Hi V

This looks like a long response, for clarity - but don't worry there’s just a few points to pick up on. Look out for the blue bits to answer as usual.
but I am happy to use the term knowing and known for awareness and aware so we are talking the same language
Just to clarify (even though you seem to understand in most of the questions) Knowingknown is not awareness and aware – "knowing" IS "awareness" but "known" is what we're "aware-of"
an example of knowingknown might be AwarenessColour.
(“in the seen only the seen” to quote the Bahiya Sutta and the Buddha again – knowing you’re a Buddhist)


I think you answered some of the questions earlier in yesterday’s thread before doing the exercise....

Since you have seen that thought really has no stand alone substance and is not a stand alone thing… can it be different or other than your (not V) "Knowing of/as" it?
I don't understand this question
If thought isn’t a standalone thing, just something you’re aware of it... can there be a separation or difference between the knowing and the known (AwarenessThought) ?


Are you able to separate a thought from the knowing of it?
yes

Please look again



Are you able to separate a sound from the knowing of it?
yes

Please look again


1) In 'hearing' can anything be found other than sound? In other words is there hearing AND sound…is there a border between hearing and sound, or there is simply hearing/sound ie hearingsound
– no borders, no divide?
I'm happy with the answer but does the ? mean you’re not certain – please look again to be sure

2) Can what is doing the hearing be found? Or is there only sound?
Theres no border - its just hearing/sound
Great

Well, seen but since there is no divide between hearing and sound, let's not put the "/" in.
So rather than hearing/sound....there is only hearingsound, meaning they are one and the same thing. There is no experiencer of experience...there is just experience ( awareness) appearing exactly as it is.

3) Can an 'I', a 'body’, a ‘person' be found? Or are there only thoughts about these, and thoughts about a ‘something’ that is hearing sound?
no "I" or "body" or "person" to be found, only thoughts about these and about something hearing sound.
great well seen
Where does sound stop and the ‘hearing’ of it begin?
Sound doesnt stop and hearing doesnt begin they are together hearing/sound and sound/hearing
Super

There is no divide, so again rather than 'hearing/sound', just hearingsound...meaning hearingsound is one and the same thing.
Can a 'hearer' ever be found in sound? Or is there simply sound?
No there is only sound
Great
Can a divide be found between the sound (which is known) and the knowing of sound? Or is the knowing and known, one and the same = knowingknown?
Knowing and known are one and the same - knowing/known
Well done

Again...there is no divide line needed, no knowing/known...only knowingknown because they are one and the same thing...no divide.
If no INHERENT HEARER is found . . . is anything that is suggested as the hearer be anything other than speculation / ideas / beliefs / thoughts etc?
its all speculation, ideas, beliefs and ideas - all thoughts
Super
Are you ever aware of two experiences or more at 'any given time'? When sound shows up, is there a 'sound experience' and a
'knowing of sound' experience? If not, then how can the sound be known through hearing?

awareness seems to be on one thing at a time
experience and knowing seem to be at the same time[/quote]

As explained at the start awareness and knowing are the same thing. “Seems” suggests you are unsure, I think you got stuck with the words and got conceptual rather than testing it out, as this doesn’t match your answers above or below. Is awareness separate from experience?

Try this - please sit down and observe your thoughts as they arise and subside...where does a thought end and the knowing of it begin?
the thought and the knowing are together
good

Can a thought ever not be known? Can there ever be hidden, unseen thoughts?
Is there a distance between a thought (known) and the knowing of it?

Can you find a dividing line between the knowing of a thought and the thought itself? Or is the knowing and the thought = one and the same?
one and the same - the knowing and the thought is one and the same
good
So can an experiencer of experience be found?
no
great
Can a separation be found between experiencer and experience...
no
good

or is experiencerexperience one and the same?
experiencer/experience are one and the same
super

Again there is NO divide between experiencer/experience. There is only experiencerexperience. In other words, they are one and the same thing. There is no experiencer experiencing...there is just experience itself. There is no awareness and awared...there is just awarenessawared = one and the same...just awareness itself.

In fact, to be more accurate, nothing is seen, heard, tasted, smelled, thought, or felt.
Experience is simply known.
All "senses", and "things", are just imaginary divisions of experience...imaginary divisions of awareness.


I appreciate some of the wording is complicated and can take you into the conceptual, so as a tip for the future - after you have dropped more into the experiential by doing an exercise, you might want to review your other answers, to stop the picky response :-)

You're doing well
Taran x
[/quote]
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:26 pm

Hi Taran

Thanks for your responses - here are my answers to your questions. Rather brief but really nothing more to say on those really.
If thought isn’t a standalone thing, just something you’re aware of it... can there be a separation or difference between the knowing and the known (AwarenessThought) ?
no

Are you able to separate a thought from the knowing of it?
no
Are you able to separate a sound from the knowing of it?
no
In 'hearing' can anything be found other than sound? In other words is there hearing AND sound…is there a border between hearing and sound, or there is simply hearing/sound ie hearingsound
– no borders, no divide
Can a thought ever not be known?
no
Can there ever be hidden, unseen thoughts?
no
Is there a distance between a thought (known) and the knowing of it?
no

Thanks
V

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:27 am

Hi V

Thanks for your responses..... You missed just one question, but a pretty importance question.

Is awareness separate from experience?


I'm also curious after all those short but sweet answers.....How have the last couple of weeks of exercises changed life for you, if at all?

Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:11 am

Hi Taran,

Sorry I missed a question last time.
Is awareness separate from experience?
No
How have the last couple of weeks of exercises changed life for you, if at all?
This probably isn’t the question you are asking but I think it might help to explain the impact doing these posts has on me. The typing up and cutting and pasting and reading and writing involved in doing this process via text on this site is very demanding and time consuming for me.

Reading and writing is very difficult for me generally. It takes me many more times longer than most people to read and write. It’s probably dyslexia or a learning difficulty. I can easily feel overwhelmed when I open I post and seen all the words and colors ahead of me which I’m going to have to decipher, so it’s very challenging.

Then because it’s so challenging and so time consuming that does bring up a lot of anxiety and thought around not having time. Needing to do other things such as my normal job of work is one main one. So I can’t say it’s easy.

But doing the actual exercises is fine in comparison. I enjoy exploring and looking and seeing what’s there. There are times I feel frustrated and other times I feel resistant or fearful at what I might (or might not) find but mostly I realize that is just thought so I just watch it arise and disperse and that’s fine.

So to try to answer your actual question more precisely...Not much has changed really. If anything has changed at all it’s been very subtle. There could be more calm or more acceptance of direct experience. It’s difficult to put a finger on it. If in a potentially slightly more stressful situation or moment arises then the exercises are useful to stop thoughts building on top of each other (or stories) so that stops too much attachment to thought .....a thought can then just be watched as it arises and disperses. The same can happen with a physical experience. This helps bring DE to the forefront. So there is less suffering. More calm. More acceptance of what is here in DE right now.

I hope that makes sense?

V x

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:46 am

Hi V

Thank you for your response. Good clarity in answering the question, but also in your honesty over your difficult experience of reading/replying.

It is great you’re noticing you can be calmer/less fearful if you stay with direct experience (DE) also know as ‘actual experience’ (AE).

Here is a nice exercise around anxiety, which is worth copying and pasting a copy to use whenever anxiety arises.

Today think of something that would make you anxious now... perhaps replying, being out control, or a loved one catching the virus. And give this a go.


When ‘anxiety’ appears, close your eyes and do the following:

1) Look at the label/thought ‘anxiety’ itself. See the label/word ‘anxiety’ as a typewritten word in the ‘mind’s eye’ across the forehead



Does the label ‘anxiety’ know anything about anxiety, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
Is the label ‘anxiety’ itself anxious?
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is anxious?

2) Then look at the sensation and ignore everything else but the sensation itself.
Inquire into the sensation and ask if the sensation itself knows anything about ‘anxiety’.

Look and see if the sensation itself is the anxious self. If the words ‘yes’ , or ‘yes, this is the self’ appears, go back to Step 1 and see the words across the forehead and repeat step 1.



Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is 'anxiety' or that it is anxious?
Can you find anyone or anything within or behind the sensation that is 'anxious'?


If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is anxious, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is anxious as you did in step 1.

3) Look at the mental image/outline labelled body.



Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘anxiety’?
Can you find anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anxiety’ or that can be ‘anxious’.

If other random mental images appear during the noticing of the sensation, check to see if those images are the self who is anxious, or are they images that are simply arising and subsiding? If other ‘loud’ thoughts appear, check to see if they are the self that is anxious, as you did in step 1.

4) With eyes still closed look everywhere (look where thought says your feet are, to the left and right, up above…look everywhere) and see if you can find anyone or anything that is anxious.



Did you find anyone or anything that is anxious?


When you have done this and if no one/no thing is found, then just sit with the sensation. Just breathe normally, notice the thoughts and images that appear and let them pass on by unless they seem to hang around, then do the appropriate steps above. Allow the sensation all the room it needs in the body without pushing it aside or judging it. If it becomes too intense just take a couple of deep breaths into the sensation itself, and then notice the floor under your feet, notice your backside on the chair and then notice what is in the room you are sitting in and name them out loud, while being aware of the sensation and remember to breathe normally. If the sensation does not dissipate at all or only dissipates a little, that is okay, just notice it, without doing anything with it and just go about your day.

We are not trying to get rid of the sensation labelled ‘anxiety’ or the arising thoughts or images. We are only LOOKING to see what is actually appearing (ie thought, sensation, colour/image) as opposed to what thought is saying ABOUT what actually IS.


Let me know how you get on.

Remember
The label ‘anxiety’is the AE of thought and not the AE of anxiety
The sensation labelled ‘anxiety’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of anxiety
The colour labelled ‘me/I/body’ is the AE of colour and not the AE of anxiety
The thoughts ABOUT anxiety- what it is, does etc are AE of thought and not AE of anxiety

So, is there actual experience of ‘anxiety’ or just that what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT anxiety?

Label ‘anxiety’ is known and thoughts about ‘anxiety’ are known, however, is ‘anxiety’ actually known?


Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:51 am

Hi Taran

I’m glad my explanation about writing reading and copying and pasting helped you understand a bit more what’s going on for me

Here are my answers to your questions from doing the anxiety exercise
Does the label ‘anxiety’ know anything about anxiety, or is the word just a bunch of letters?
it’s just a bunch of letters
Is the label ‘anxiety’ itself anxious?
No
Can you find anyone/anything in the word itself that is anxious?
No
Does the sensation itself suggest in any way that it is 'anxiety' or that it is anxious?
No
Can you find anyone or anything within or behind the sensation that is 'anxious'?
No
Does the image/outline itself know anything about ‘anxiety’?
No
Can you find anyone/anything in the image/colour itself that knows anything about ‘anxiety’ or that can be ‘anxious’.
No
Did you find anyone or anything that is anxious?
No
So, is there actual experience of ‘anxiety’ or just that what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT anxiety?


just that what is actually appearing (AE) is label + sensation + colour + thoughts ABOUT anxiety
Label ‘anxiety’ is known and thoughts about ‘anxiety’ are known, however, is ‘anxiety’ actually known?
No

I hope I didnt miss any bits this time.

Thanks for the exercise
I liked it

I’ll do as you suggested and copy and paste it elsewhere
It’s a good little exercise 🙂

Vx

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Taran
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Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:35 pm

Hi V

Thank you for your response. So anytime anxiety or fear arise, then you can use this exercise.

Let's try something else entirely.

Here is an even investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.
(1) close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’? Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
[color]

Let me know what you find.
Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)

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Viquillusion
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Viquillusion » Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:01 am

Hi Taran
1) close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.
(
2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?
No connection. Just thought suggesting there may be a connection. But even the thoughts are very loose!

(
3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?
No. No connection between felt sensations and image in the mirror.

(
4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’? Or only thoughts suggest it?
No. No connection between felt sensations and ‘image of movement’ only thoughts that suggest there might be a connection but as before even the thoughts are tenuous.

(
5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’? Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
No. The image itself doesn’t suggest it’s a body or that it’s me or my body. It’s just colours and shapes.
Or are there only colours and shapes?
Only colours and shapes

(
6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?
No
None

(
7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?
Only sensations

(
8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Only sensations
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
There’s no experience of ‘walking’
There’s Just thoughts about walking

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’? Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?
No thing as ‘body’ can be found. Only thoughts about ‘body’ can be found.

No thing as ‘walking’ can be found. Only ‘thoughts’ about walking can be found.


(
9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?
[color]
The Sensations are not localised in space. Its only an image labelled ‘room’ and a thought about ‘room’. The sensations are without location.

Thank you
Vx

User avatar
Taran
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:58 am

Re: Looking for the Guide Taran

Postby Taran » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:44 pm

Hi V

Great....well done. How was that exercise for you?

Let's do some more work with the idea of 'body'.

Find a quiet place and time, then sit or lay down and relax.

Close your eyes for the exercises (after reading questions!)

Can you attend to sensation exclusively?

Is the mind babbling about this and that.... labeling sensations etc ?

Thought may say "I'm lying here" or "my body is lying here" or "a body is lying here"
But could this be known from pure sensation?

Thought might suggest "There's soft pressure against my back"
But could you know about "pressure" or "back" from pure sensation?

Now whilst ONLY attending to sensation, please answer the following questions:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a specific size, shape or weight?
How many toes are there?


Write up the answers.

How does the exercise make "you" feel?

Keep noting the direct experience of walking and other actions as you go about your day in the same 'looking' at what is actually happening way.

Have Fun
Taran x
No thought - no problem. (Byron Katie)


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