Wanting to know the truth of our reality

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Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:58 pm

Hi Scott. :)


When looking there's no words, no emotions, no thoughts.


What makes you say that's a "feeling of ownership" if this feeling is not perceived
as anything among the above?



Can you own something when you don't think you have it in the first place, nor have no emotions
regarding having it?


thinking thoughts about something else and you're projecting into the past or future in some way seeing an imaginary self.


What is making this a problem?


There's this link using the sense data of the body which seems to make more negative thoughts come up which then makes more sensations in the body.


I'm afraid you didn't clearly mention what that "link" itself is?


This idea of I'm over here looking and something else is over there. I think that's part what keeps me held into the belief of a separate self. Which I know we were working on in our chat and I'm still having a hard time with it.

Another thing I think that's sticking for me is the physical body I've inhabited. The feeling of it's where I'm located.


Yes, that's a pretty tough one; let's work on them in our next video chat. :)



Warm regards,

Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:43 am

Hey Kento,

Hope you're well pal. If you could send me over the final questions that would be greatly appreciated! I'm curious of what comes next :)

Thanks a lot for everything.

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:48 am

Hi Scott. :) Glad to hear from you, my friend.

Yes, here are the questions for you; please take your time, and enjoy!


1) Can you say with 100% certainty that you have realised that there is no separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?


Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:48 pm

Thanks so much for sending these over. Been adjusting to this new reality and it's been an interesting process.


1) Can you say with 100% certainty that you have realized that there is no separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?


Yeah it's all an illusion, there's no time, space, past, physicality of the universe or the body expect in each moment. It's clear there is no self.


2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?


The illusion of the self is created in each and every moment, these sensations of the body this visual field, it all arrives moment after moment. This gives the feeling of continuity or a separate self but it's all just appearances. It's all just a field of something that parts compile into this feeling of "me" or "I". It's different now because there's a knowing of the illusion, that's its a dream land. The feeling of self isn't inside this mind, this body etc anymore.


3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Now if I look for the self it doesn't feel limited to this body but instead feels expansive and all around. It feels outward instead of inward. There's a feeling of expansion, connection, and peace, it feels nice. The sensations of the body feel relaxing while looking like this. It also feels like lots of things that seemed to matter have fallen away and don't really matter any more. I seem to exist in the dream reality of Scott but when looking at any point can see that that's not what this experience is actually composed of and instead it's a part of everything.


4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?


The process of inquiry and looking all built up to a point where I watched my hand disintegrate into the aether or whatever over and over again, then come back together. It was this same field I had been seeing for a long time but finally recognized I was a part of it and it me and it was everything what everything was composed of. There was a moment that felt like everything recognizing itself as one and the same.


5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.


Well thoughts just arrive so there's no free will / intention / decision / choice / control. I don't know how it works but it just arrives in each and every moment. It like when you're speaking you not thinking of the words first the just arrive. Even in this moment I'm not thinking up the words to type here they're just arriving and I'm not deciding what to type. It just comes. So if that's how thinking works then how would anyone choose anything for themselves if they don't choose what they think?

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.


This I don't know. If there's no control on thinking what can you be responsible for? If I see myself everyone and everything as one in the same then there is an inclination to take care of it all since it's serving me /us / everything but I don't know what you're actually responsible for.


Thanks Kento! Hope you're doing well my friend :)

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:44 am

Hi Scott! Good to hear from you. :) Hope you are doing well, too.


I watched my hand disintegrate into the aether or whatever over and over again, then come back together.


This part isn't very clear; could you elaborate?


It was this same field I had been seeing for a long time but finally recognized I was a part of it and it me and it was everything what everything was composed of.


Could you tell what the word "field" refers to and what "I was a part of it" means; what is part of what?


There was a moment that felt like everything recognizing itself as one and the same.


This is a bit too abstract. Could you clarify this part?



Warm wishes,

Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:24 pm

I watched my hand disintegrate into the aether or whatever over and over again, then come back together.
This part isn't very clear; could you elaborate?
Well I was under the influence of psychedelics. I was doing the exercise from my practice of pointing to where "others" see "my" face. So pointing inwards to focus attention on what "I" was. This focused me on the shimmering and translucent waves of shapes and colors flowing around. They were thick, slow, and wavering. This is something I see all the time without any influence when I take the time to look closely but the resolution and clarity of it was much much higher and it moved slower than normal. While pointing and keeping focus fixed inward these waves went over the pointing hand and the hand drifted apart into tiny pieces and flew away becoming part of these waves of shapes and colours. I sat for maybe 3 hours doing this watching parts of what I considered myself drift apart and return over and over again. There was a moment where instead of feeling it was my body and that i was contained inwards there was clarity that "i" — it's hard to describe since we don't really have language for not i — but "I" was everything, it all shifted from being inwards to outwards. There was clarity in the realization.
There was a moment that felt like everything recognizing itself as one and the same.

This just is in regards to the statement that I had heard in the past that when you see through the illusion "it's god recognizing itself" and that's how it felt, it was like electricity. There was a clarity and knowing here that everything around the body was also a part of me and there was no real me but instead there was everything and it was all the same. What I thought was me is just sensations and visions of a body but it's al created in each moment. There was a recognition that this existence sits outside of time or space and in here "I" exist as everything and this body, time, space, etc is all just an illusion.

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:06 pm

Hi Scott. :)


Well I was under the influence of psychedelics.


What about now? What is your hand now?


This just is in regards to the statement that I had heard in the past that when you see through the illusion "it's god recognizing itself" and that's how it felt, it was like electricity.


Would you like to tell what this "god" is in your own words?


Warm wishes,

Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:37 pm

What about now? What is your hand now?

It's just an illusion, a combination of visuals, sensations etc. Its the same as everything else. There's sensations that tie into it experientially but no ownership there. It's just another object.


Would you like to tell what this "god" is in your own words?

Yeah that's just a phrase I heard, it's more of an analogy. There's no belief in god / a deity or anything like that. "God" is simply everything in this sense. The table, the hand, the plants, the body, the thoughts and the sensations etc. It's everything that makes up this experience Scott exists in and it's all the same, composed of the same whatever it's all composed of. I don't have any beliefs of a "god" or anything I can't verify. This experience or consciousness probably came from somewhere so maybe there's some supreme intelligence running it all or created it but I have no proof of that and hold no concept of "God".

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:53 pm

Hi Scott. :) Happy new year!


It's just an illusion, a combination of visuals, sensations etc. Its the same as everything else. There's sensations that tie into it experientially but no ownership there. It's just another object.

"There's sensations that tie into it experientially"

"It's just another object."


Could you elaborate on these?


This experience or consciousness probably came from somewhere

Let's have a look at this.

Where does experience come from?


Warm wishes,

Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Sat Jan 02, 2021 7:53 pm

Happy new year Kento!
"There's sensations that tie into it experientially"

"It's just another object."

Could you elaborate on these?


There's sensations of temperature pressure tingling whatever it is that show up that can get written as hand, but don't really anymore. Unlike the table or chair where's there's no feelings that arrive for those. Same degree of ownership though, which is zero. It's all just materializing in each moment.

With no subject everything is an object including the hand, the body, the chair etc. There's no feeling of "mine" there for any of them more than the other.


This experience or consciousness probably came from somewhere
]Where does experience come from?


No clue where experience comes from it just shows up — all I meant by that phrase was that there's something here so maybe there was a point that there was nothing but again no way to verify so there's no belief there.

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:08 pm

Hi Scott. :)


There's sensations of temperature pressure tingling whatever it is that show up that can get written as hand, but don't really anymore. Unlike the table or chair where's there's no feelings that arrive for those. Same degree of ownership though, which is zero. It's all just materializing in each moment.


Could you summarize, so that it becomes a bit clearer?
What is a hand?


With no subject everything is an object


Please elaborate on this.


No clue where experience comes from it just shows up — all I meant by that phrase was that there's something here so maybe there was a point that there was nothing but again no way to verify so there's no belief there.


Not very clear here. Have you looked yourself where experiences come?
If not, please do. If yes, please tell bit more.


Warm wishes,

Kento

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skb
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:56 am

What is a hand?
The hand is consciousness or whatever the heck everything is made of. I don't know if there's a label for it. It all combines to make an image of the hand. There's sensations that get thought as hand but with no physicalality to the hand there's no way for the sensations to come from the hand, they arrive on their own too. There is "seeing" of the hand, but there's no hand. It's simply an illusion.


With no subject everything is an object
With all things in this framework (hand/table/computer etc) being made of the same substrate and being created in the same way everything is one and the same. There is no physicallity to the body since it's an illusion so there's no true subject, there's no way for there to be a subject. There's seeing from a single point which gives the sensation of a subject but everything in that vision is manifesting on its own and is created in the same way so everything is one and the same, you could call them objects, or consciousness, but whatever label you use is a bit of an abstraction.


where experiences come?
They just arrive. It all just arrives. Thoughts just arrive. Feeling, sensations, emotions they all just arrive on their own. There's no control, how could there be? There's no brain to create them. There is simply thinking, feeling, seeing, etc.



Thanks Kento, Happy 2021 :)

Bananafish
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Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:07 pm

Hi Scott. :)


The hand is consciousness or whatever the heck everything is made of.


Is it made od something? What makes you say so?


There's seeing from a single point which gives the sensation of a subject but everything in that vision is manifesting on its own and is created in the same way so everything is one and the same,


This sounds very much like a logic, but what is this all about, really?
What is "seeing from a single point?"

Please try not to rationalize (I'm not telling that you do) any doubts about your clarity regarding this inquiry,
and please share questions, if any, ok?


They just arrive.


Seems like you are avoiding my questions in a subtle way; if you say
they arrive, where do they arrive from? Could you elaborate on what you mean by
"they just arrive"?



Warm wishes,

Kento


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