Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:51 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
LU is guiding truth seekers with the right Q's and prompts to experience there's no "self" who's seeking and it's held up by scafolding of thougths/beliefs keeping it togehter. LU is helping people with the right intent see with direct examination this "self" doesn't hold up to scrutiny and helping them awaken from the dream of duality.

What are you looking for at LU?
I want to talk to someone who has undergone this experience and would be able to help guide me to see through this veil of selfhood. I've been searching for truth on my own and having a hard time moving from understanding it as a mix of intellectually (which is just another belief) and breifly experientially here and there, to having it be the reality I know since I've seen it clearly and it's abiding. Once I've realized all I can really know is that "I am" or there is consciousness / awareness here and everything else is sense data I've felt a bit lost and confused trying to figure what the next step is on my own. It makes sense we have to experience it directly so I'm hoping someone will be able to help me see and know the fundamental truth of our reality and realize truly the falsness of selfhood or self identification.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I'm hoping that someone will be able to understand where I'm at and what I need to be asked or pointed to to be able to see that there is no self to be doing the seeing or seeking. I want to know the fundamental nature of our being and our reality. From what I understand there is no self to be wanting or knowing and hope that with a guided conversation I'd be able to see past the sense of self and realize the falseness of my self hood.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating for about 6 years. I haven't been a super diligent practioner but probably average around 4 times a week.
I had an ego death experience about 6 months ago and then the books of Jed Mckenna ended up incednetally crossing my path pretty soon afterwards. I always belived and questioned my reality a bit but these combinded sent me interest intop overdrive. I am a varicous reader and have been reading a lot on the subject of the self lately. I have been trying to write everyday as well (it doesn't happen everyday) to ask myself questions and get my thoughts out around non dualtiy and the falsehood of the self. I'm also currently reading the Gateless Gatecrashers and working through the Enlightening Quotes app.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:48 am

Hi skb. :) My name is Kento.

I'm more than glad to be your guide ... looks like you've been on a quite long journey!

Please tell more about the "ego death experience" you mentioned in your intro; I'd like to hear
what kind of understanding that experience brought about.

Warm regards,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:23 pm

Hey Kento,

Thanks so much for taking me on. It really is truly appreciated! :)

It's been a slowly unfolding and interesting journey up to this point for sure.

With the "ego death experience" it was while under the influence of LSD. A bit of background — I have had a fair bit of experience with psychedelics in the past and have for a few years been really interested in the "mystical” experience” or whatever that I had heard described by others. So for a while had been chasing the experience a bit to try and I don’t even know “achieve” it or something like that. It was not totally achieving it though I guess it was more curiosity of what’s true and real and thought this might be a way into that. I was super curious to know what everyone was talking about and wanted to see what it was like for myself as well.

I just looked back at my calendar now and realized it was only 5 weeks ago not 6 months. Haha time can be tricky.

Anyway, I was with a friend and we were lying in the grass looking up at the sky. I had made a 45 minute audio mix of sorts that was relaxing meditations and peaceful ambient music paired together that we were listening to.

We were lying in the grass listening to this mix, and the more relaxed I got, the more I accepted the experience things started to melt away. It’s all a bit ineffable but I’ll try my best to explain.

I was having pretty strong visual hallucinations and I can’t remember if my eyes were open or closed but I saw the world around me, including my own body turn into all these reflective/translucent moving pieces quickly flying around and constantly swirling and rearranging into other parts of the world, turning into trees, clouds, mountains etc. It felt like this is how things really are and under normal mental states this process of rearrangement just can’t be seen happening because my normal “refresh rate” was too slow. Kinda like when you turn a camera on a computer monitor or TV and find out it’s actually moving really fast but you can’t see it because your eyes can’t process it.

I had already come to the conclusion that the hallucinations you see while experiencing these substances is your consciousness projected outwards, but here it felt different it felt like everything in the world was made of consciousness including myself. I've been using Sam Harris' meditaion app called "Waking Up" for a maybe a year and a bit and in some of it he mentions something about consciousness being the very fabic of our existence and it never really made sense until that point where it was crystal clear what he was talking about. Where it actually was what this world that was being experinced was made of.

Then all I was/could see(?) was this ball of glowing light flying over mountain ranges and felt beams of energy flowing in and out of this consciousness as it flew over.

I’m really not sure how long this went on for but while this was happening the mix ended and being the one who put it on and there being silence I got pulled back into reality to deal with the silence, since I was with a friend and felt an obligation to put something else on or figure out what to do next.

So from here it felt like I had seen something that I had believed to be true and it felt real. Unfortunately the difference I think while being under the influence is there’s an ambiguity or questioning (at least for me in this experience) that is it just the drugs doing it or is it real? It felt real but there’s still that uncertainty there. It didn’t provide any lasting clarity but opened a door into some deeper exploration.

Then shortly afterwards the universe or whatever presented me with the books of Jed Mckenna and things started to become a bit clearer and confusing at the same time haha. I got hooked thinking about trying to figure this out though and have been devouring books (read 5 books and am half way through the gateless gatecrasher since then), listening to podcasts, researching non duality, writing more, meditating etc to try and find answers and that's how I ended up here.

So once again I’m really really grateful for your guidance and help in this journey.

I noticed in the Gateless Gatecrashers book they mention sometimes to stop reading or consulting other sources. Do you think I should do that as well?

Thanks againg for your help and I'm lookng forward to chatting with you. :)

Scott

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:09 pm

Hi Scott. :) Thanks for the reply, and your detailed account on your experience!

Now, as you said, it is important set aside everything you've read or experienced so far
and start anew; otherwise, you may start comparing the process of this dialogue with
the your past experience, which can hinder the effectiveness of this conversation.

Having said that, let's start!

First of all, please tell me where, when, and what yourself is.
Please only tell from your experience here in this moment, not from
your past experience.

Warm wishes,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:02 am

Hey Kento!

Sounds great! Happy to share it, felt good to get to get it out there since I haven't really descirbed it to anyone.

————

Where the self is? I try to look for it but all that comes up is thoughts about this physical body but other than visual imagery and temperature and pressure etc I can't necesarily verify this is my self in any real way. I'm not sure though if I'm just thinking this on an intellectual basis since that's what I think it's supposed to seem like?

Since the expreince mentioned above and I've been getting a sense pretty regularly of a connection to the space around me or as a part of the space around me. It feels a little like my consciousness or awareness or whatever it is extending out in all directions including behind me. There's no knowledge that this is the self but it feel like it a spreading of awareness.

When is yourself is? It seems that you can think about or picture memories and think about or picture yourself in the future but these are just thoughts they're not a real entity. It's just an image of the self but in the now you're only experienceing what's happening so there isn't really a self there.

What is the self? This I have no idea, if it's not this physical body I really don't know. The only thing I can be certain of at this point is that something is being experienced. Thoughts come and go without producing them, my hands type without process as to how they're going to hit the keys, it feels automatic in a way. So I’m not sure where the self is.

Thanks a lot!

Scott

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 am

Ok, thanks Scott!

Now, where are you, when you don't think about where you are?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:01 pm

Hey,

When I don't think about where I am and just experince it it seems like there's nothing there. Without thinking it's just sort of blank? It's sort of just experience and I can't really locate any self. It doesn't give me any lasting clarty and at the same time there is a blankness there.

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:50 pm

Hi. :)


It doesn't give me any lasting clarty and at the same time there is a blankness there.


Is "lasting clarity" what you expect to gain here?

Could you elaborate on what you call "blankness"?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:29 pm

I guess I do kind of expect lasting clarity but I guess there shouldn't be any expectations. It's not necessarily lasting clarity but more a knowing of going through the gate so to speak.

Yeah the blankness is guess in thinking about it closer not blank at all. It's all the direct experience, senses light etc just that raw experience.

I spent some time just really looking for the self, scanning through all the parts of the body, and couldn't find anything. I'm realizing that movement exists but there's no narrative until the thoughts of I come in. That story of why something happened. Things sort of just happen.

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:13 pm

Have you read lots of threads here?



It seems like you are pretty much conditioned by them, if I'm not wrong; I haven't said that
you shouldn't have expectations, btw.


Things sort of just happen.


Has this understanding liberated you?
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:40 pm

No I haven't really been reading anyones threads. I looked at a couple to see what the process was like pretty quickly but haven't dived into them at all. I did read most of the gateless gatecrashers book and have been looking through the App though.

I don't know seeing things sort of happen has liberated me yet, it feels so in a way and still feels a bit unceratin. It feels like it's getting closer though.

There was a moment where I was staring at my legs and moved my toe and realized the thought around why I did it came up directly afterwards not before. Which made it feel a bit clearer that it was just movment and then it was labeled "I moved my toe to see if it still moves"

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:22 pm

Hi. :)

It's safer not to read any book of this sort, or any apps, as you may well
start comparing what you read with what is presently going on here.

This may diminish the effectiveness of the conversation.


And your expression "getting closer" leaves the question of closer to what.
Do you have any expected image of what is attained through the conversation?

If so, please share.
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:56 pm

Sorry for the slow reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this with me.

Okay sounds good. I won't read any more info on this topic while we're working on this process together.

What I mean by getting "closer" is a feeling of getting to the gate, getting to the truth? Seeing through the self in a way that isn't a belief but it's a lasting understanding. But then again maybe it's only one step and there is no closer? I feel a bit confused and frustrated not knowing if it's attainable for me. I don't want to believe something else. I do want to verify if this illusion of the self is real.

I think what I expect in the conversation is getting to get past intellectually believing in myself as a separate self. I think I just over think it all a little bit.

I had two odd experiences in the past two days as well I'll share.
I don't know if this is related to the process at all but I was getting out of the shower yesterday and there is a glass wall that gets wiped down afterwards and there was condensation leftover on the wall and I was stopped in my tracks with the beauty of it and saw it in a way I'd never seen it before. It seemed so striking and out of the ordinary, I just started at it for a while taken aback.

And then later that evening I was sitting quietly for a while just watching my thoughts come and go, and verified through experince my thoughts and motions didn't come from me, they just arrived. In this moment I had a feeling of release and contentment that made me laugh out loud for a short moment and I started thinking maybe I was finally letting go of the self and getting through the gate, i felt different in that moment, I can't really explain how. Then I think I started trying to think through what was happening and I got stuck and fell back into "I" thoughts and then felt normal again. Again I don't know if this has anything to do with the process or not.

Thanks again and all the best,

Scott

Bananafish
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:29 pm
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby Bananafish » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:25 pm

Hi. :) Glad you're back!

Some points I'd like you to keep in mind: truth is not something about
getting close to or far from it. You'll see that when you penetrate into it, but
first you have to discover it yourself, not making it another concept.

Also, whatever experience is memory, and we won't deal with memories here;
our sole concern is what is here and now ... what IS, without any labels on it.

Having said the above, let's start from a little experiment.

Please point to yourself. Where do you point to?

Warm regards,

Kento
I'm available for Skype or Zoom face to face conversation. Drop me a line and we could arrange
the date.
Email: swinganova@hotmail.co.jp
Modern Koan Project: https://www.facebook.com/groups/628553401153461

User avatar
skb
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 am

Re: Wanting to know the truth of our reality

Postby skb » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:47 pm

Thanks! Much appreciated.

If I point towards my face and experience it in the here and now it's sort of like pointing into nothing. If I think about it I think my face is there but if I just experience it its sort of like there is no head since I'm not seeing it. Its kinda where the world is instead if that makes sense.

If I point to my other hand there's an uncertainty of what it is. It looks like my hand, it has scars on it I seem to remember but in the here an now raw experince there's a disconnect unless I start thinking about it. If I just experience it I feel uncertain what it is.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests