Standing in the light

[Reality1111]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We are all one. Separate identity is an illusion

What are you looking for at LU?
I am seeking to connect with a guide. To have a guided conversation that will enable me to see from a fresh perspective. To continue on my spiritual path. To go from having an intellectual understanding into something more.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To receive individualized pointers that will lead me to a deeper realization of what is illusion and what is truth about reality. To connect on a spiritual topic and level. This is something I would commit to and look forward to.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating off and on for 8 years. I have studied Tolle and Adyashanti. I pray and communicate or attempt to communicate with the divine. I practice inquiry often prior to meditation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
9

[Bananafish]

Hi Reality1111. :) My name is Kento, and would be more than glad to
help you.

If you are ready, could we start by you telling a bit more about
what you expect from this conversation? What is your goal in your attempts to
meditate or do self inquiry?

Warm wishes,

Kento

[Reality1111]

Hi Kento,
Thank you for responding. I'm not sure what to expect from our conversation. My older brother who I sense is farther along the spiritual path than I am directed me to this site. I guess if anything I expect this conversation to be kind of like a mentorship to help me see beyond illusion.
In the past I would meditate on the question "Who am I?" I know that I am not the roles I play. I am not identified by what I do or by my belongings. After meditating on it I came to the conclusion that what I am is actually unknowable though I do sense and energy about me.
Lately I have been a little restless and have been seeking more of a purpose for my life. I meditate and ask for guidance. I often get sparks of inspiration of things that I could do to contribute towards my purpose.
Other times when I meditate I try to send healing vibes to loved ones and to those who are experiencing suffering.
Sometimes I meditate just to relax. There have been times that I have seen images or colors and wondered if I was communicating with angels.
I hope to find clarity through our conversation.
Thanks again.
Jenny

[Bananafish]

Hi Jenny. :) Thanks for responding.

I expect this conversation to be kind of like a mentorship to help me see beyond illusion.

Ok. Please tell me about your present understanding of what you call "illusion".


Kento

[Reality1111]

By illusion I generally mean the feeling of separation from others.

Sometimes I think what we call life is an illusion too. I think we dream when we sleep and we also dream when we are awake. I think reality depends on our perception and our perception is fallible.

Is it okay for me to ask you questions?

Thank you,
Jenny

[Bananafish]

By illusion I generally mean the feeling of separation from others.

What specifically is that "feeling"? How is it felt?
As thoughts? Images? Or bodily sensations?

Is it okay for me to ask you questions?

Yes, although the basic format of this dialogue is that I ask questions and
you answer.

[Reality1111]

By illusion I generally mean the feeling of separation from others.

What specifically is that "feeling"? How is it felt?
As thoughts? Images? Or bodily sensations?

Separation is primarily experienced as a bodily sensation. Like I am here responding on this forum while my husband is over there watching TV.
I guess it also occurs as thought. Sometimes I do things because I think to do so will be to serve others. Or on another level I don't think my husband is having the same thoughts as I am.

[Bananafish]

Separation is primarily experienced as a bodily sensation. Like I am here responding on this forum while my husband is over there watching TV.

This sounds more like a thought that you are here and your husband is there.
What is the specific "bodily sensation," such as pain or itch, is the sensation of separation?

Or on another level I don't think my husband is having the same thoughts as I am.

Again here I can see a belief "I and others have to have the same thought for us not to be
separate." What makes you think so?

[Reality1111]

Good morning Kento, thank you for your response.

This sounds more like a thought that you are here and your husband is there.
What is the specific "bodily sensation," such as pain or itch, is the sensation of separation?

Bodily sensations such as a pain or an itch to me are signals to do something. With pain I may go to the doctor, with an itch I might scratch it. I'm not sure how this pertains to separateness other than the pain or the itch seems to be happening to a me as opposed to us.

Again here I can see a belief "I and others have to have the same thought for us not to be
separate." What makes you think so?

I don't know where thoughts come from but I guess I make the assumption that they come from the same source for all of us. So it seems that if we are One then we would think similar thoughts. One analogy I use for this Oneness is by thinking of us as cells within God's body. I guess that means that we don't have the same thoughts but that we work in harmony with each other.

Thank you so much for your time and attention,
Jenny

[Bananafish]

Hi Jenny. :)

I'm not sure how this pertains to separateness other than the pain or the itch seems to be happening to a me as opposed to us.

When you say pain is happening to you, what specifically is it to which the pain is happening?

I don't know where thoughts come from but I guess I make the assumption that they come from the same source for all of us.

Yes, that is a nice assumption, but assumption is assumption, and it won't let you see reality;
then, why not discard assumptions altogether?


So again, what separates you and others?
Could you name some more things that you think is separating the two?


Warm wishes,

Kento

[Reality1111]

When you say pain is happening to you, what specifically is it to which the pain is happening?

Say I am having a headache so the pain is located maybe behind my eyes. So there is a location for the pain. It seems to be effecting me and not anyone else around me. My husband wouldn't take medicine because I have a headache.

Yes, that is a nice assumption, but assumption is assumption, and it won't let you see reality;
then, why not discard assumptions altogether?

i will try to drop assumptions

So again, what separates you and others?
Could you name some more things that you think is separating the two?

Let me see. We appear to take up different locations. We have different experiences. Like they say the same man cannot step in the same river twice. We have differing levels of consciousness. Differing levels of intelligence. Different shapes. Different preferences. Different ideas about what is right and wrong. We are just different. Yet we have a lot in common too.

Thank you so much Kento

Jenny

[Bananafish]

Hi Jenny. :)

Say I am having a headache so the pain is located maybe behind my eyes. So there is a location for the pain.

Yes. And what is the relationship between that particular location and "you," if you don't think about
it from the beginning? What if you don't use any of such logic? Is there any actual sensation that
verifies the existence of something called "self"?

It seems to be effecting me and not anyone else around me. My husband wouldn't take medicine because I have a headache.

Again, what if you drop the logic, when you stop thinking about you and "others"?
What is it that's happening when you are swallowing something?

Does the raw sensation of drinking something, without any words given,
verify the existence of you and the others?

We have different experiences.

Can you ever directly know that "others" are having experiences?

[Reality1111]

Say I am having a headache so the pain is located maybe behind my eyes. So there is a location for the pain.

Yes. And what is the relationship between that particular location and "you," if you don't think about
it from the beginning? What if you don't use any of such logic? Is there any actual sensation that
verifies the existence of something called "self"?[/quote]

This question is making a lot of thoughts arise. I guess the relationship between this location and me is a story. I don't own the pain, the pain is happening. There is a sensation of pain. The construct of self wants to say I have a headache, my head hurts and I have to do something about it. However, I can see. how there could be no self.

It seems to be effecting me and not anyone else around me. My husband wouldn't take medicine because I have a headache.

Again, what if you drop the logic, when you stop thinking about you and "others"?
What is it that's happening when you are swallowing something?

Does the raw sensation of drinking something, without any words given,
verify the existence of you and the others?

When I am swallowing something there is movement and sensation. Something seems to be happening in a certain time and space when I am drinking something. As for the existence of self and others that is something I see. I know this may be incorrect but I feel like I have a locus of control over self as opposed to others.

We have different experiences.

Can you ever directly know that "others" are having experiences?
[/quote]

I can't directly know that. Someone might tell me about their experience though. What about me? I feel like I am having an experience. Or would you say that experience happens but there is no one for it to happen to?

[Bananafish]

I feel like I have a locus of control over self as opposed to others.

Could you elaborate?

[Reality1111]

I feel like I have a locus of control over self as opposed to others.

Could you elaborate?

I can control what I say and do but I have no idea what someone else will say or do.

Thank you for your time,
Jenny