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Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:56 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,
I can't find anything, when I watch for (me) doing ......anything. (Of course, I don't find another "entity doing them either)
you did a good looking.
Somehow the choice is made. There is not a self doing it, but rather, watching it.
Good. No self doing it, but what is watching?
Is it possible that there a watchER?
Or watching just happens?

]There were many choices made......glasses, drinks....getting 2 that I like equally, so I don't know the answer before I even begin the exercise.
Who or what chooses these "likes" or "dislikes"?

Did you choose to like an orange juice, instead of apple for example?

Dig here as well.

What is choosing these likes?

I didn't control the process at any point. I was more of an observer, of how the cups felt, looked.....continuing in the same way once I took a drink. There wasn't a sudden change in sensation after a "choice had been made, and a drink taken.
Hmm, interesting. Now just slow down a little and LOOK very careful:

Where is this observer exactly?

Is it somewhere OUTSIDE of the story as an observer - it just observe, untouched by everything?

Is the observer separated from what is being observed?

Let's hunt for this one.

The observer you are trying to become IS the self itself.

Observer = self

Can you see this?

No, even when it seems a decision has been made, most things re done automatically, without paying attention to the doing. Thoughts receive attention easily, as so many movement don't require anything.
Driving, which requires many turns and manipulations.......just, happens.
Good observation.
What is not happen automatically?

Yes, without thinking interfering, me is a thought.

Without thinking, answers are clear.

Thank you again Luchana!
You're welcome :-)

Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:19 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,

No self doing it, but what is watching?
Nothing......there is just watching.

Is it possible that there a watchER?
I don't find a watcher.......that would be an entity, here now somehow, so no, there is no watcher.

Or watching just happens?
Yes, there is just watching. It just happens. There is no starting watching, stopping watching. Even with A LOT of thinking, there is watching.......just, not as much awareness of watching happening.

Who or what chooses these "likes" or "dislikes"?
They are there, and appear and disappear, as a type of thought, preference, opinion. They come and go. They change.
Did you choose to like an orange juice, instead of apple for example?
No, there was no choice , no choosing what to like, or dislike.


What is choosing these likes?
Nothing. They are like a type of cloud. Coming, changing, leaving........there is nothing constant there.


Where is this observer exactly?
Nowhere. Just, here....... It's not a place........mmmmmm, having some difficulty, finding a clear answer .

Ok. There's no observer.
The observing happening is exactly here now.

Is it somewhere OUTSIDE of the story as an observer - it just observe, untouched by everything?
Oh, oh. It's not outside the story......and yet, is untouched by everything. There no emotion, thoughts, feelings to the observing. It's not drawn into the drama of the story, but, the story is in it.
Is the observer separated from what is being observed?
The observer is not separated from what is being observed.

Let's hunt for this one.

The observer you are trying to become IS the self itself.

Observer = self

Can you see this?
Yes. That's the real, unchanging, self.........observing

What is not happen automatically?
I can't find anything........happening is.........happening.

Thank you!

Tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:19 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,
Nowhere. Just, here....... It's not a place........mmmmmm, having some difficulty, finding a clear answer .

Ok. There's no observer.
The observing happening is exactly here now.
Oh, oh. It's not outside the story......and yet, is untouched by everything. There no emotion, thoughts, feelings to the observing. It's not drawn into the drama of the story, but, the story is in it.
Yes. That's the real, unchanging, self.........observing
There is a contradiction in your answers.
On one hand there is no observer, but in the other - the observer is somehow both outside and inside the story, unchanging and real.
I understand your confusion. There is a belief in an observer, a higher self, which can just observe. Of course no thought, no emotion can touches it. This is a very common belief among non-dual and advaita seackers. But this is just an uninvestigated and unquestioned belief. There is nothing that can observe anything. And that’s the beauty.

Look now in this very moment.

How many selves are here? Two, three, more?
One unchanging self, observing and one changing ?

Where is this real, uncnanging self?

Can it be experienced with one of the 5 sences?

Drop the thoughts about it. Drop all you think you know. Dig deep into experience. Look with the eyes of a child. A child doesn't know anything about a real self. A child doesn't know anything at all.

Now stop reading for a moment or two and just close your eyes. Listen to the sounds that are present. Not some particular sound, but just what is here - maybe some cars passing, birds singing, a sound from a fridge or from a computer.

And just say - "I'm hearing these sounds", just say this and feel the sensations in the body.
And than say "There is hearing happening" - feel again the sensations in the body.
What do you find?

Sitting with the sensations in the body look at the following questions and write what's feel true.


Who or what is hearing these sounds exactly?

A left ear? A right ear? A head? A body?

Can an inherent hearer be found?


Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:11 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,


[/quote]There is a contradiction in your answers.
On one hand there is no observer, but in the other - the observer is somehow both outside and inside the story, unchanging and real.
I understand your confusion. There is a belief in an observer, a higher self, which can just observe. Of course no thought, no emotion can touches it. This is a very common belief among non-dual and advaita seackers. But this is just an uninvestigated and unquestioned belief. There is nothing that can observe anything. And that’s the beauty. [/quote]

Yes, I know I was contradicting myself. Yes, I was, am confused. I know you said at the beginning, to forget any paths I had been on.........witnessing/observing as you said is a common belief brought up by various people I have been interested in.


There is nothing that can observe anything. And that’s the beauty.
Nothing? This line really stands out for me. I am not constantly observing? Oh.......yes, that's exactly where "self" moved to.
(Ok, so the imaginary self, became imaging observing)


Look now in this very moment.

How many selves are here? Two, three, more?
One.........(I feel the correct answer is none, but, .....)

One unchanging self, observing and one changing ?
No, I feel that observing is occurring....that that is where there is always a presence, and that there is not as often being carried away by thoughts . That actions, and sensations Are happening, and being noticed. I am still confused, and , I really feel this is not the answer I am supposed to give.
Where is this real, uncnanging self?
Nowhere
Can it be experienced with one of the 5 sences?
Nope


Drop the thoughts about it. Drop all you think you know. Dig deep into experience. Look with the eyes of a child. A child doesn't know anything about a real self. A child doesn't know anything at all.

Now stop reading for a moment or two and just close your eyes. Listen to the sounds that are present. Not some particular sound, but just what is here - maybe some cars passing, birds singing, a sound from a fridge or from a computer.
And just say - "I'm hearing these sounds", just say this and feel the sensations in the body.
This makes the body tense, contracted.

And than say "There is hearing happening" - feel again the sensations in the body.
What do you find?
This is much more relaxed, easy.
Sitting with the sensations in the body look at the following questions and write what's feel true.

Who or what is hearing these sounds exactly?
I have no idea........nothing?
Your earlier statement," there is nothing that can observe anything"
Who or what is hearing these sounds?
I have resistance to the answer of "nothing", but, that is the answer......I have a ton of thoughts come up..." Whoa, wait a minute! Impossible! This doesn't make sense....how can nothing hear?......" etc,
A left ear? A right ear? A head? A body?

(Ok, I just erased my answer which was just a lot of thinking........)
No, it can't be identified.

]
Can an inherent hearer be found?
No, it cannot.........I have some agitation, physical .....itchiness. I want to finish, and send it quickly.

As with thinker, of thoughts, no, no hearer

Thank you!

Tannis


Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:21 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,

No, I feel that observing is occurring....that that is where there is always a presence, and that there is not as often being carried away by thoughts . That actions, and sensations Are happening, and being noticed.

Is there a sensation without the noticing of it?
Is there a noticing without a senstation?
Is the noticing separate from the sensation?
Who or what make the sensation?
Who or what make the noticing?


I am still confused, and I really feel this is not the answer I am supposed to give.
Confusion is a good sign. It measn that some belief is shaken. Keep looking and don't worry about the supposed answer. There are no right or wrong answers. Just write what is true for you in this very moment.
Nothing? This line really stands out for me. I am not constantly observing? Oh.......yes, that's exactly where "self" moved to.
(Ok, so the imaginary self, became imaging observing)
You don't have to believe me or take any words for granted. Look in this very moment.

Is there an obserer hiding somewhere?

I have resistance to the answer of "nothing", but, that is the answer......I have a ton of thoughts come up..." Whoa, wait a minute! Impossible! This doesn't make sense....how can nothing hear?......" etc,
Ok, let's try something else here:
Make this exercise again, saying:


1. I'm hearing these sounds.
and
2. There is an experience of a sound.

Than look at these quesions:


Is there an experiencER of a sound?

Does someone or something make the experience of a sound?

Or there is just an experience of a sound?



Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:46 am
by Raquelflight
Hello L uchana,


At first, these questions looked so puzzling, and I didn't think answers would come. If there is time to be alone and quiet, this helps. I will be alone for a week in a couple of days. I'm looking forward to t sitting with some of the things you have said that stopped me, and stood out.
Is there a sensation without the noticing of it?
No. But then, if there were a sensation, and There was no noticing of it, it would still be as though it weren't there at all.

Is there a noticing without a senstation?
No.
There has to be some sensation' with noticing, otherwise, what would be noticed?

Is the noticing separate from the sensation?
No, they cannot be separated.
Who or what make the sensation?
Nothing. It comes and goes, like thoughts. No one, nothing makes them.

Who or what make the noticing?
No one, and nothing. If something or someone made either the sensation or the noticing, there would be a creature creating. Where would it be?in my mind? No. Outside of my mind, but a type of puppet master? Mmmmm, no.

You don't have to believe me or take any words for granted. Look in this very moment.
Is there an obserer hiding somewhere?
Ok......noisy agitated mind has quietened. Body not itchy at the moment.

There is no observer. There are just sensations being ....noticed. (Is noticing a better word here?......than observed?

Maybe that is some of the confusion........they are similar words to me.)

Is there an experiencER of a sound?
There is no experiencer.
Does someone or something make the experience of a sound?
No, the experience is happening.......no one, nothing is making it.
Or there is just an experience of a sound?
Ther is just the experience....sight, sound , sensations of the body, smell, taste, when that happens......thoughts coming and going.
That's it. That's all.

Thank you,

Tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:03 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,

you did a very good looking.
At first, these questions looked so puzzling, and I didn't think answers would come. If there is time to be alone and quiet, this helps. I will be alone for a week in a couple of days. I'm looking forward to t sitting with some of the things you have said that stopped me, and stood out.
That would be great if you can spent some time alone. It is helping a lot while looking.
There is no observer. There are just sensations being ....noticed. (Is noticing a better word here?......than observed?
It can be tricky with words..yes because they only describe recognition. And recognition is also a word. Maybe noticing is better (at least for me).
No. But then, if there were a sensation, and There was no noticing of it, it would still be as though it weren't there at all.
Can you try to describe what you see in a different way? (English is not my native language, so probably is something with it)
Ther is just the experience....sight, sound , sensations of the body, smell, taste, when that happens......thoughts coming and going.
That's it. That's all.
Ok, there is just the experience. Let's dig here a little bit more

Whether the thoughts can experience sight, sound, sensations, smell, taste?

or
There is an experience of thoughts ?

What about Tannis?

Who or what is experiencing thoughts about Tannis?


Spend with these questions a whole day.
And have fun.

Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:30 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,

It hasn't quite been a full day with e questions, but, I will continue to look, and do this daily writing.

It can be tricky with words..yes because they only describe recognition. And recognition is also a word. Maybe noticing is (at least for me).
Yes, I wonder if the apple in the garden of Eden is just a metaphor for language. The labelling with words gives a step at least, away from simple experiencing.

Can you try to describe what you see in a different way? (English is not my native language, so probably is something with it)
No, your English is great.
Re: "Is there a sensation without the noticing of it?"

No. I feel there is a connection to time here. The sensation and noticing happen together. They must both be present......there cannot be one without the other.

Ex. My dog's wet nose touches my leg. There is a sensation of cold wet on the leg, for a second. It's over, and just a second later, the memory is not the same as the sensation NOW. Thinking it might happen in the future, in a minute, an hour, tomorrow, does not create the sensation, or noticing. Memory, or future speculation are the same.........without the noticing or sensation of .....whatever is the experience NOW.

A sensation that is not happening NOW, cannot be noticed.
Noticing a sensation from the past or future is not possible. Only something now can be noticed.
Ok, there is just the experience. Let's dig here a little bit more

Whether the thoughts can experience sight, sound, sensations, smell, taste?
Ok, thoughts cannot experience. They are experienced. They are similar to the dog's nose touching the leg. The wet , cold sensation is experienced......it doesn't experience, or feel, or see, hear.....just, whatever is present NOW is experiencing.

or
There is an experience of thoughts ?
Yes, there is an experience of thoughts, touch sight, smell, sound.....only NOW.

What about Tannis?
This bundle of thoughts, memories, worried anticipation, or, excited anticipation about the future.......all about Tannis......are just an experience of thoughts.
Who or what is experiencing thoughts about Tannis?
I don't know......this presence here now. whatever has been experiencing being in this changing body, with constantly changing thoughts and sensations.
This ....awareness. This Noticing.

Thank you,

Tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:52 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,

No. I feel there is a connection to time here. The sensation and noticing happen together. They must both be present......there cannot be one without the other.

Ex. My dog's wet nose touches my leg. There is a sensation of cold wet on the leg, for a second. It's over, and just a second later, the memory is not the same as the sensation NOW. Thinking it might happen in the future, in a minute, an hour, tomorrow, does not create the sensation, or noticing. Memory, or future speculation are the same.........without the noticing or sensation of .....whatever is the experience NOW.

A sensation that is not happening NOW, cannot be noticed.
Noticing a sensation from the past or future is not possible. Only something now can be noticed.

Thank you for clarification. Let's investigate some more here.

What is time in this very moment?

Can you touch, smell and see time?

How time is experienced exactly?

How future is experienced exactly?

What about the past?

Does past or future ‘exists’ other than contents of thoughts?

Is there a proof that the "dog's wet nose touches my leg"?

Is there a proof that you had lunch yestarday?

Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?

Dig deep and let me know what you find.
Ok, thoughts cannot experience. They are experienced. They are similar to the dog's nose touching the leg. The wet , cold sensation is experienced......it doesn't experience, or feel, or see, hear.....just, whatever is present NOW is experiencing.
You did a good looking.
This bundle of thoughts, memories, worried anticipation, or, excited anticipation about the future.......all about Tannis......are just an experience of thoughts.
If Tannis is just an experience of a thought, does Tannis has a power to do anything at all than?


I don't know......this presence here now. whatever has been experiencing being in this changing body, with constantly changing thoughts and sensations.
This ....awareness. This Noticing.

Let's just check if awareness can be experienced with one of the 5 senses?

Colour, taste, sound, smell, texture?


Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:24 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,


Something happened that I can see in the preview as a share within a share, but, I am afraid I will lose it if I try to fix it. If it's too tricky yo read let me know and I'll redo. Sorry.
What is time in this very moment?
There is no time.....just now.


Can you touch, smell and see time?
Time is imaginary......it has no qualities we can experience with our senses. It can only be in thoughts about imagined future, imagined past, imagined
present, at some other place
How is time experienced exactly?
It's not experienced. We can only notice sensations now.

How future is experienced exactly?
We can never experience future. We have imagined thoughts, worries, excitement about what we imagine the future will hold.
What about the past?
We can never experience the past. We imagine events we think are memories and call these the past.


Does past or future ‘exists’ other than contents of thoughts?
They only exist as imaginings , thoughts.
Is there a proof that the "dog's wet nose touches my leg"?
I have no proof......neither does anyone. There is just now, and even that is gone, and it is a different now.....and so on.

Is there a proof thaLet's just check if awareness can be experienced with one of the 5 senses?
t you had lunch yestarday?
There is no proof I was here yesterday. There is no proof I ate. It's imagined.
Is there any experiential proof whatsoever that the past has ever happened?
Three is no experiential proof of anything having happened.

If Tannis is just an experience of a thought, does Tannis has a power to do anything at all than?
Thoughts are not capable of action. "Tannis" as an experience of thought, has no power to do anything at all. Even as a collection of thoughts..."it" is powerless to act.



So..."Tannis" doesn't exist, then who or what does?

Experiencing.


Who or what believes there is a need to (fill in the blank).....search for liberation thru LU? Meditate? Etc...
Who or what desires the truth? How do the beliefs and desires seem so .....real? So powerful, and encompassing?
(They are nothing)

The answers are what believes and desires is "something imaginary", "a group of imaginary thoughts" , which, upon investigation of immediate experience, are non existant, are nothing.
The search and searcher also imagined. The desire for truth is imagined too. As they don't exist, they can be seen as nothing.

Then, there needs to be a search, to discover there is no search. It's part of the dream.

Who/what is dreaming? Not Tannis, nothing can be found.

Does experiencing believe? No. Think? No. Care? No. Feel? No.
Smell.....through noticing the experience of the body

Let's just check if awareness can be experienced with one of the 5 senses?

Mmmmm, "awareness", has no discernible qualities. I have no words to describe "awareness", "presence", "being-ness". There is no physical sensation, so, no texture, sound, no taste, smell........mmmm, nothing. No temperature. This one is not clear. This is the "experiencing" of sensations and thoughts. That alone.
What is something with absolutely zero qualities? Space? What is space? This is not the space of air between objects. It's ..no thing. Nothing.

Thank you,

Tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:52 am
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,
So..."Tannis" doesn't exist, then who or what does?

Experiencing.


Who or what believes there is a need to (fill in the blank).....search for liberation thru LU? Meditate? Etc...
Who or what desires the truth? How do the beliefs and desires seem so .....real? So powerful, and encompassing?
But look - is there a self? Was there ever been a self which seeks?

Or seeking just happens?


Yes. There is an experiencing, an existence, and something is aware of it.

Does this mean that this aware-ing/experiencing is separate from what is being aware?


Mmmmm, "awareness", has no discernible qualities. I have no words to describe "awareness", "presence", "being-ness". There is no physical sensation, so, no texture, sound, no taste, smell........mmmm, nothing. No temperature. This one is not clear. This is the "experiencing" of sensations and thoughts. That alone.
What is something with absolutely zero qualities? Space? What is space? This is not the space of air between objects. It's ..no thing. Nothing.


Let's try something else.

Is there an awareness which is something special, apart from the five senses?

Is awareness something independent of and prior to sense perception?

What is awareness, when you don't think about what awareness is?



What I would suggest is one day or two to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Tannis am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.


Where is Tannis in the whole of this? Outside, aware?

Can the story of Tannis be seen as what it is - just a story, including Tannis?


Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:38 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,
But look - is there a self? Was there ever been a self which seeks?
oh.....I hadn't thought of that. I try to drop everything I have heard earlier, but, with your questions here, I realize, I think of there being a seeker, who must disappear, as that has been a central part in earlier teachings. And "seeking" to be dropped too. So, I know I had these assumptions now.

There is no ______er, seeker, speaker, feeler....these indicate a" Person", a "doer". There is .........just "ing"

There is no self, and never was, so something non-existent cannot act.... in any way.

Or seeking just happens?
Seeking just happens.
Yes. There is an experiencing, an existence, and something is aware of it.

Does this mean that this aware-ing/experiencing is separate from what is being aware?
They cannot be separated.

Is there an awareness which is something special, apart from the five senses?
There is nothing separate from the senses.
Is awareness something independent of and prior to sense perception?
No, they cannot be separated. Awareness is another term for noticing. noticing and the sensations are part of the same happening.

What is awareness, when you don't think about what awareness is?
It's noticing sensations, and thoughts.
(I had carried with me earlier thought about"awareness". AS though it was a place I would go to.)
What I would suggest is one day or two to go for a walk somewhere in nature. A small park nearby is a good option also. Walk for a while, sit somewhere and look arround. Trees, flowers, insects, birds, people's chatters, children's playing, sensations in the body, thoughts including the thought of I, Tannis am sitting, looking and observing- all this is just one happening.


Where is Tannis in the whole of this? Outside, aware?

I am part of it......I can't be outside.

Can the story of Tannis be seen as what it is - just a story, including Tannis?
Yes........thats wonderful. I will keep looking at it this way.

Tomorrow is the first of 9 days alone at home. I will go take care of my parents, and visit them, have a bit of interaction with people, but, not so much. not as much as usual. I'll keep doing this exercise, and using your questions as investigation.



thank you,

tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:29 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,
I hadn't thought of that. I try to drop everything I have heard earlier, but, with your questions here, I realize, I think of there being a seeker, who must disappear, as that has been a central part in earlier teachings. And "seeking" to be dropped too. So, I know I had these assumptions now.
You don't have to think. Thinking about that is not going to help. Thinking and intellectualising is dead end.
You really have to LOOK if there is a self, a seeker. You have to literally look.
There is no ______er, seeker, speaker, feeler....these indicate a" Person", a "doer". There is .........just "ing"

There is no self, and never was, so something non-existent cannot act.... in any way.
Do you see this experientially or it is rather an intellectual understanding?
(I had carried with me earlier thought about"awareness". AS though it was a place I would go to.)
Is there someone or something who can go into the awareness?


Yes........thats wonderful. I will keep looking at it this way.
Good. Investigate these also :

Can the character in this happening (the story) chooses the story?

Can Batman decide to be Darth Vader for example?


For the next exercise you don't need to sit and examine, but stand up and walk. Do it now, just walk arround the room
Watch like a hawk at every step:


What mooves the legs?

Where exactly does the decision come from which leg to move first?

Does someone show up and makes a decision to move one leg or another?

Is there a controller that controls walking?

Who or what is doing "the walking"?

Tomorrow is the first of 9 days alone at home. I will go take care of my parents, and visit them, have a bit of interaction with people, but, not so much. not as much as usual. I'll keep doing this exercise, and using your questions as investigation.
Great. Make use of these days and spend as much time as it's possible looking.

Much love,
Luchana

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:31 am
by Raquelflight
Hello Luchana,
Do you see this experientially or it is rather an intellectual understanding?
RE:NO -"er" of any kind.
Intellectual understanding. When I "investigate the experience before thoughts interfere", I find there cannot be any "DOER".
I say this is intellectual though, because thoughts quickly interfere.
A few days ago, we spoke about seeing a thought, but not getting into the content.These days, I notice thoughts much more often, before getting carried away by the content too far.
Is there someone or something who can go into the awareness?
There is not someone or something who can go into the awareness.......it is not a place, or a separation that could be entered into.
Can the character in this happening (the story) chooses the story?
As the character has no control , it cannot choose the story, or even small actions within the story. It has no choice. (It has no desire either)
Can Batman decide to be Darth Vader for example?
well, batman can only be batman........but, he has no feelings, emotions, desires, decision making ability. .....
I feel that type of story is at a different level than the story of Tannis, even though I cannot make any decisions about what occurs.
What mooves the legs?
I don't know. They just move....it is effortless.
Where exactly does the decision come from which leg to move first?
I don't know. Its automatic. If I'm not noticing, which, I'm not, I'm not aware of which leg started first, or , which one will be last, unless there is a clear decision,"OK, i will stop moving my left leg last" Then there is a bit of effort involved to carry through with that.
Its like, getting into the car, and arriving at my destination, without making any choices consciously, about turning, slowing down etc....Anything to do with operating the car, happens, I assume, because I have done it so many times before. I don't notice the time that I have spent driving, as I have been daydreaming the whole time.
Walking around the room has the same quality.........once there is the idea to follow this exercise, it happens.

Does someone show up and makes a decision to move one leg or another?
, no. no one shows up to operate the body.
Is there a controller that controls walking?
There is no controller....at some point though, it stops. Something else happens, or, just sitting and watching, which is again , something else happening.


Who or what is doing "the walking"?
It just happens. There is no creature doing the walking, or , controlling the activity.

Thank you,

Tannis

Re: Seems I could use a hand here

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:25 pm
by Luchana
Hi Tannis,
RE:NO -"er" of any kind.
Intellectual understanding. When I "investigate the experience before thoughts interfere", I find there cannot be any "DOER".
I say this is intellectual though, because thoughts quickly interfere.
A few days ago, we spoke about seeing a thought, but not getting into the content.These days, I notice thoughts much more often, before getting carried away by the content too far.
Ok. Let's focus on one thing only. Let's focus on the thoughts and how they exactly interfere. First give some time for relax, really relax and try not think about the inquiry,if is it going to work, what's going on or what isn't going on etc...just relax.

For a whole day (it will be great if it is during the whole day) try to incorpotate as many moments as it's possible in focusing only at one thing - how thoughts are coming. Especialy the thought I, Tannis.
Try to notice the thought even it is for a while - maybe seconds. But many, many seconds during the whole day.

Just watch it how comes and goes and inquire:

Can this thought think?

Can it interfere?

Can this thought do anything at all?


Examine with curiosity and with a sort of wonder.

Let me know what you find.

Much love,
Luchana