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Re: ... a dandilion on the wind ...

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:32 am
by tombi
WoW! ok hallo again ...
Can you really see that there is no controller and everything is happening by itself?
Yes. I see it clearly in the natural world. When I "see" this I experience it as a feeling ... maybe ?joy?
Words can be insufficient and very clumsy.
Now, can you check - What is not happening on automatic?
Things that take planning are not so automatic, like booking a flight or building a road.
Is there a thought response to the action?
As said before, thoughts (ego?) claims credit for doing after action happens.
Can you clearly see how thought creates movement?
In terms of thinking about cutting my hair or cleaning my teeth, yes the thought (memory) creates movement/action.
Learning piano - reading the music and playing the notes? Driving a car, playing golf - a lot of thoughts coming together, relaxing and letting all those "knowings" to happen automatically.
Also thoughts about how we perceive something can cause us to act out, I can ignore a warning thought not to say a mean thing and say it anyway or pay attention to the warning and refrain.
Can there be movement without thought?
*sigh* this is a tough one, I find myself still a bit unclear / confused ... because things are relative.
The wind, winds itself - this is automatic. Rain and waves, rain and wave themselves ... this is automatic. But getting up and dancing to music I love just happens however, it's not always appropriate - so, if in an office setting, I must control this impulse. Picking up and holding a crying baby would be a movement without thought as long it was a baby I knew.

In terms of a person, it is the nature of the mind for thoughts to arise but in the moment, in the now, learned activities can happen without thought. Falling asleep can happen without thought.
When you type on the keyboard do you say which finger where to go? How exactly do you say it and to whom do you say it? on your fingers?
No - I do not instruct my fingers where to go. If I am writing from direct speech (not a dictating machine) I might sometimes say the same words back to myself to make sure I got it correct. In order to keep up. But this would be a memory then - hmmmm.
Write something and look, don't imagine it ;)
- this is a learned skill from many years ago, I can remember it being very laborious to learn, one finger at a time: A.S.D.F.G.F., we had to say each keystroke out aloud many many times over and over from age 13. But this is a memory, a thought. Now it happens without thought and it's become very automatic. Same with swimming - initially slow and laborious, building confidence, getting the timing, the breathing, this too is a memory / thoughts. Now it just happens. Same for walking, running, skipping, balancing on a bike.

Lubo it feels like there are very subtle differences around automatic or non automatic.
But is this just a thought as well ;-P

Re: ... a dandilion on the wind ...

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:55 am
by tombi
Hi Lubo

Still looking.

Seeing that the breath just breaths itself. Still attempting to look and to see instead of think and remember.

Have been reading some more of the forums and Gateless Gatecrashes for the ways that others have changed and grown their understand from thinking to looking. As well am watching some you tube clips when I have 10 minutes here and there.

Lubo, feel somewhat aware when thoughts take over from direct experience ... am calling it "yes but" so to recognise it sooner. However the habit is very strong and the shift is subtle but profound.

My apologies that I didn't really sign off last time - I felt it was for me to continue looking. Continue floating.

Am seeing/feeling a kind of freedom when I get to the place of non self, excitement even. I said joy before.

Also see when I use memory to reference the now - it can be painful / stressful. Depending on memory.

Still looking softly - attempting not to make it too difficult and to keep it light.
Thanks Lubo
with love.
;-p

Re: ... a dandilion on the wind ...

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:54 pm
by Lubo
HI, Tombi,

I'm sorry I delayed my answer, but the plans don't always work ;)

There is a strong desire in your second letter. I'm very happy for you.
Leave the videos, now it's time to work. Look what is here now, do the exercises over and over again. And if there are obstacles, write to me.
Now, can you check - What is not happening on automatic?
Things that take planning are not so automatic, like booking a flight or building a road.
I understand very well what you mean. But let’s look closer:
Do you have to plan something today? Plan and watch how it happens.
Can you not make plan?
Can you make a different plan than what seems the best option?
Is plan dependent on situation?
Watch how planing happens and describe in detail. Is planing a skill like playing piano, that can be learned?

Start writing the plan on the computer and while writing notice:

Does the body know that a plan is being made?
Does the body make a plan?
Does the body know that a plan is being made?
Look at the fingers - do they know what plan they are describing?
How is the writing done - do you press the letter or does the finger press the letter? and the movements of the wrist? elbow? shoulder? do you make them or does the hand make them?

Much Love
Lubo

Re: ... a dandilion on the wind ...

Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:24 am
by tombi
Hi Lubo

Apologies for the delay. As you say - plans can go awry. As a business owner I'm acutely aware of this.
But let’s look closer:
Do you have to plan something today? Plan and watch how it happens.
Can you not make plan?
Can you make a different plan than what seems the best option?
Is plan dependent on situation?
Watch how planing happens and describe in detail. Is planing a skill like playing piano, that can be learned?


Yes planning is a learned skill. Yes one can not make any plan. Yes - a sub optimum plan can be made.
Yes a plan is dependent on the situation exactly. If I want to build a house, there are all sorts of plans required from how the house will look and be made to when the workers will meet on the site to who will order materials etc.

So a plan appears to me to be a framework for certain events to come together or to produce a result. Even if it's meeting friends at a restaurant at a certain time. One has agreed to make the reservation, all agree to meet at the time and place. If all get there and the table has been given away to someone else, we make another framework / arrangement / plan. But we have still managed to get a group of people to arrive at approximately the same time in one location. So the plan has partly worked.

When plans don't work out, we accommodate what arises and move forward or nothing would get built/accomplished. This well illustrates that we are not in total control and are therefore required to prepare for every eventuality. Adapting and being flexible with what shows up so that we can still, for example, meet client expectations. This is exactly the type of practical help I need from you to point me to experiential understanding of the pointing you are doing.

I don't want to labour on about this but to make no plans at all, all of the time is not possible. Are we talking about semantics? Precise use of language? And no, my body does not know that plans are being made. So Lubo, is there a word I should be using instead of PLANS? Like make arrangements, or framework? For example I've noticed that there is a distinction between feeling (thoughts) and sensing (direct experience).

As a young person I wasn't much of a plan maker ... nearly always going with the flow of what was going on around me. I prefer this type of spontaneity. But I had to learn that not planning had consequences and that having a good plan is key for successful business outcomes.

But Lubo words are inadequate and cause misunderstanding / blindness to the pointing ...

Fundamentally, in the bigger picture, I don't think anyone is ultimately in control.
Best wishes
t

Re: ... a dandilion on the wind ...

Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:17 am
by Lubo
Hi Tombi,
Welcome back :)

You did nice observation.
Ok
Let’s look here:
I don't think anyone is ultimately in control.
How does “i am not in control” apply to your experience?
What are you in control of and what is happening by itself?
Right here right now, not theoretically, but in practice?

Love,
Lubo