No self inquiry

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Bohjaangles
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Bohjaangles » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:39 am

Sorry for the extended period of silence, I will try to give you notice if there is a time again where I will be unable to respond for an extended period. I predict I should be able to respond every other day for a while ahead.
To sum up what have you learned about time from your own experience?
That everything is mostly remembered as a narrative, accessible through pictures that are in memory or imagination, and there is a "sense" of time, such as different memories come up based on how long ago is trying to be remembered or predicted, such as a day vs a week. That the breaking up of moments or the experience of time can be handy, but also arbitrary. Objective time is experienced subjectively, as in an hour by the clock can feel or seem different based on a few variables. Also that right now is contantly going on and that doesn't seem particularily special or anything and that time mostly makes sense when talking about the past as a memory or the future as a prediction.
As for the debt. Find that feeling, how does it feel to be in debt? Where is that feeling? Is it ok for it to be here?
I am rather used to it, it doesn't provide much of a feeling unless I am considering what my options are in a given situation and the debt I have is relevant, in those cases I can feel a tightness of belly and tenseness of shoulders, and something akin to being trapped. The trapped feeling doesn't have a location of being felt, it's kind of like an unpleasant thought. I guess it's okay to be here, though I think I am missing the point of this particular quesiton.
What comes up when you focus on that feeling?
thoughts that I will always be in debt and never escape, that my hopes and aspirations for building wealth for myself are just imaginations that will never come to fruition. Some fear around a story of poverty relating to a self that doesnt exist.
When was the very first time you felt this?
Hard to say with much certainty, I think it was when we opened our second center and it did not have near as much inital interest as the first and the bills started piling up and were much larger than before and there was a thoughts of futility and having made a poor decision and spending a lot of future money to do it. Though the awareness wasn't there in the same way, I was just stressed out to crazy town and the situation of desparation has certainly changed in a better direction, at least currently, and so what I am feeling about it now is probably different than then, although that may be more about intensity, is kind of hard to say cause comparrison is against memory.

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Ilona
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:15 am

Thank you for reply.
I am rather used to it, it doesn't provide much of a feeling unless I am considering what my options are in a given situation and the debt I have is relevant, in those cases I can feel a tightness of belly and tenseness of shoulders, and something akin to being trapped. The trapped feeling doesn't have a location of being felt, it's kind of like an unpleasant thought. I guess it's okay to be here, though I think I am missing the point of this particular quesiton.
That’s very good. See how by looking at it you uncover a trapped feeling, an uncomfortable thought. That’s what you want, to find those thoughts that feel horrible and look at them, are they telling the truth? Where did they come from? Who’s voice saying that? It takes a lot of courage and honesty to face those thoughts and feelings, but that’s a way to bring unconscious up.
thoughts that I will always be in debt and never escape, that my hopes and aspirations for building wealth for myself are just imaginations that will never come to fruition. Some fear around a story of poverty relating to a self that doesnt exist.
This is rich in things to look at- idea that you will always be in debt, expectations of how your wealth should look like, fear about poverty- all these ideas and feeling are showing up as external world. You see what you believe. And you can look at what you believe and question that. But not by looking for a proof of beliefs in the experience, but looking at the belief itself.

This work needs patience and focus, but as long as these beliefs are unquestioned, the show reflects them back to you.

Write what comes up hearing this.

Love.

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Bohjaangles
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Bohjaangles » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:35 am

ou see what you believe. And you can look at what you believe and question that. But not by looking for a proof of beliefs in the experience, but looking at the belief itself.
How do you look at beliefs? I was contemplating this and thoughts articulating the words describing the beliefs kept coming up but that isn’t the belief, just a description of it. The belief is kind of like a set of rules that are given as the default about what is or rather is expected to be. How do you look at them? I was thinking about the idea of testing them, ie: I believe that touching this pointy object hurts, so i touch it and it hurts or doesnt hurt, which is fine in this simplistic example as it provides immediate and obvious feedback. Maybe I am missing the forest for the trees, but how do you look at beliefs and then question them? Is it by the testing method, is there another method I may employ?
idea that you will always be in debt, expectations of how your wealth should look like, fear about poverty- all these ideas and feeling are showing up as external world
Also noticing that you mention these ideas and feelings as showing up as external world. What do you mean by that? I think that is significant but I can’t draw anything from it. My only idea is vague and akin to these thoughts and feelings are believed to be information sourced externally as opposed to conclusions manufactured internally
This work needs patience and focus, but as long as these beliefs are unquestioned, the show reflects them back to you.
The mind show, I like that :)

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Ilona
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:05 pm

Thank you for patience, and sorry for delay with answer.
There are many ways to explore beliefs. One I can recommend is Byron Katie’s work, if you haven’t heard of it, it’s a good idea to learn and use it. It’s a powerful technique. What worked for me was writing out on paper, what I felt to be truth and then having it all in front of me I would question the truthfulness of statements. The idea here is to examine what you know about life and arrive at not knowing.
Also noticing that you mention these ideas and feelings as showing up as external world. What do you mean by that? I think that is significant but I can’t draw anything from it. My only idea is vague and akin to these thoughts and feelings are believed to be information sourced externally as opposed to conclusions manufactured internally
You see the world such as you believe it is. The word is a reflection of what you believe. See, is there a line that separates internal and external? In experience right now, what is internal and what is external and what makes it so?

Examine that.

Love.

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Bohjaangles
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Bohjaangles » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:38 am

Hi Ilona, no worries on delayed answer, I'm always just stoked you get back to me at all and continue to work with me :)
One I can recommend is Byron Katie’s work
Thats good stuff, its disarmingly simple and I am specifically looking at the 4 question method, I think there are a lot of beliefs currently held with which I can treat to such scrutiny.
You see the world such as you believe it is. The word is a reflection of what you believe.
Yes, this is also a good reminder, thank you!

I think I will take a little bit with this, as this new tool wants some playing, I'll work with this stuff over the weekend and get back to you early this coming week.

Thank you!

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Bohjaangles
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Bohjaangles » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:03 am

Hi Ilona,
get back to you early this coming week.
Didn't quite hit that benchmark.

There are a lot of beliefs to go through. And this kind of work takes practice, persistance and time, at least that's how I see it. Anyways, I dont really have anything to get back to you on right now. And it would be hard for me to predict when I might next.

I really appreciate your guiding me through this work, and the continued guidance tangential to the no self work.

Gratitude.

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Ilona
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Re: No self inquiry

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:31 am

Yes, that’s right, this kind of work takes time and practice and the more knots are released, there more space there is to breathe. It’s an ongoing process and it continues.
Feel free to share what you are noticing.
What has changed in daily life?

Love.


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