Emptiness

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:28 pm

Hi Aragon,

thank You very much for the YouTube-clip! It's really amazing how powerful our brain connects informations and makes us believe it's real!
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
The qualities were appearing by themselves. The preferences were just obvious, there was no choosing of the preferences. At the end of step 1 there was no preference for A or B. At that point I couldn’t tell which one I’m going to choose. It was a kind of equal.
In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No, through the counting the counting itself got into the first row and the preferences automatically went into the second row. So in this step there was just counting, no choosing.
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
I choose B. It was a very clear choice without any hesitation and it had nothing to do with the preferences in step 1. I did not experience a mental function or a faculty doing the choosing. There was just a very clear choice for B. But if I ask where the choice comes from….. there must be something like a mental function or faculty. Nothing was arising like ‘I’m the chooser’.
Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
Maybe we call it a feeling but it’s not a feeling. Maybe the expression comes from lack of knowing where the choice comes from and how to express it. As I was writing before there must be something, someplace where it comes from.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:49 pm

Hi Gerd,

Thank you for your reply.......
In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
I choose B. It was a very clear choice without any hesitation and it had nothing to do with the preferences in step 1. I did not experience a mental function or a faculty doing the choosing. There was just a very clear choice for B. But if I ask where the choice comes from….. there must be something like a mental function or faculty. Nothing was arising like ‘I’m the chooser’.

It’s interesting, is it not, that, so far, after all this looking, no someone/something has been found who is the thinker of thought or controller of doership…

and because there is nothing found, the mind then says… "well there just must be a someone/something", as a means to hold onto certain beliefs and concepts"…

even when there is no actual evidence of that someone/something being found!

This thought, "well there just must be a someone/something" is just a thought, no?

What is the resistance to seeing that there is no ‘something’ called a mental function or faculty that is choosing? If there is no mental faculty, what does that mean to you?

It is challenging and frustrating to look beyond thoughts, beliefs and concepts in order to see Reality as it is without the added layers of stories.....

to look, instead, at what the actual experience is as a means to find out the validity of any thought, belief or concept.

Thoughts appear as does the idea of control…that is not in contention. What is, is that there is a you or a something that is doing them instead of them simply happening without a you or a something.

When you did the thought exercises…did you find a thinker of thought? If not, then why would there need to be some mental faculty that is choosing. Can it not be like thought and simply be happening?

What is the actual experience of the label ‘choice’?

Where in actual experience can “something like a mental function or faculty" be found?

What is the AE of ‘mental function’?



Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
Maybe we call it a feeling but it’s not a feeling. Maybe the expression comes from lack of knowing where the choice comes from and how to express it. As I was writing before there must be something, someplace where it comes from.

Have you never had a thought arise saying that you feel like eating an apple instead of an orange. The question is, can a feeling choose, does a feeling know anything?

So, if there is this someplace…where is it exactly? Find it and describe it and tell me where it is located, in the meantime let’s look at the idea of it being the head. It is generally believed that any sort of mental function happens in the head. So let’s examine the solidity of the head.

Please IGNORE all thoughts and mental images of ‘head’ and ‘fingers’ and just answer from actual experience. Close your eyes and take in a couple of deep breaths to settle the dust and keeping your eyes closed...

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them

Without thought, how big is the head?
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Without thought, does it have a location?
When eyes are open, can you actually see ‘your’ head? Without thought, how is it known that 'you' have a head?


A great experiment by Douglas Harding also points to this.

Point to where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turn the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there, to you the subject, to the place where it seems you are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?


Looking forward to your reply,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:23 pm

Hi Aragon,
What is the resistance to seeing that there is no ‘something’ called a mental function or faculty that is choosing? If there is no mental faculty, what does that mean to you?
I was just writing down my instant reaction to the exercise: ‘there must be something….’. But yes, I agree this is mind with its beliefs and concepts. If there is no mental faculty….. It’s new, it’s amazing and it’s something I have to get used to.
When you did the thought exercises…did you find a thinker of thought? If not, then why would there need to be some mental faculty that is choosing. Can it not be like thought and simply be happening?
Yes, I agree, it was simply happening.
What is the actual experience of the label ‘choice’?
It’s no colour, smell, taste…. and no thought (no mental faculty). So, I don’t know what it is.
Where in actual experience can “something like a mental function or faculty" be found?
It can be found in thought.
What is the AE of ‘mental function’?
It’s a thought as a container.
Have you never had a thought arise saying that you feel like eating an apple instead of an orange. The question is, can a feeling choose, does a feeling know anything?
I would say it’s a kind of preference. But one can call it also a feeling.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation (labelled ‘pressure’) and thoughts ABOUT a head?
It is just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
There are just sensations.
And is there anything between the pressure points, or are there just thoughts about something being in between them
There are just thoughts about something in between the pressure points.
Without thought, how big is the head?
The size of the head cannot be known.
Without thought, does it have an inside or an outside?
Nothing can be said about inside or outside.
Without thought, does it have a location?
There is no location.
When eyes are open, can you actually see ‘your’ head? Without thought, how is it known that 'you' have a head?
I cannot see ‘my’ head. It cannot be known that I have a head.
What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turn the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there, to you the subject, to the place where it seems you are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?
I see a finger. I cannot see my face. I cannot see anything at all.

Thank you, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:52 pm

Hi Gerd,

Lovely responses....

Apologies, will reply tonight, keep looking :)

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:54 am

Hi Gerd,

What is the resistance to seeing that there is no ‘something’ called a mental function or faculty that is choosing? If there is no mental faculty, what does that mean to you?
I was just writing down my instant reaction to the exercise: ‘there must be something….’. But yes, I agree this is mind with its beliefs and concepts. If there is no mental faculty….. It’s new, it’s amazing and it’s something I have to get used to.

Lovely answer Gerd. Yes I know what you mean. It can feel kind of amazing to be released from a view....


What is the actual experience of the label ‘choice’?
It’s no colour, smell, taste…. and no thought (no mental faculty). So, I don’t know what it is.

The AE of choice is thought. The word choice is simply a label and all thoughts about choices etc is simply AE of thought. It's nothing more than a thought. Is this clear for you?


Okay, so we have looked at the idea of a controller, decider and chooser..which all have to do with the idea of doership...so let's look at the idea of a doer, of doership.

We’ll do a little exercise on this topic. We are only using the sense of seeing for this exercise.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look to your right.
Then look to your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look to the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).
When you look to the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen? Is there a choice in what you see, in what you are aware of?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?

Is there a chooser who chooses what is seen?

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?



I look forward to your reply.

Aragon.
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:44 pm

Hi Aragon,

I'm a bit confused with the label 'choice':
1. Where in actual experience can “something like a mental function or faculty" be found?
It can be found in thought.
2. What is the resistance to seeing that there is no ‘something’ called a mental function or faculty that is choosing? If there is no mental faculty, what does that mean to you?
3. What is the actual experience of the label ‘choice’?
It’s no colour, smell, taste…. and no thought (no mental faculty). So, I don’t know what it is.
The AE of choice is thought. The word choice is simply a label and all thoughts about choices etc is simply AE of thought. It's nothing more than a thought. Is this clear for you?
So what I understood was: 1.Mental faculty can be found in thought. 2.There is no mental faculty in choosing 3.The conclusion for me is that choosing cannot be in thought.
So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen? Is there a choice in what you see, in what you are aware of?
I cannot turn off seeing. I’m seeing what I see. There is no choice.
Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?
Can you turn off seeing?
I cannot turn off the seeing on the left and in front.
Is there a chooser who chooses what is seen?
There is no chooser. It is just seen what is seen.
If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
It can only be chosen not to see what is seen, if you/I look somewhere else.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:57 pm

Thanks for your reply Gerd, and for your honesty....
I'm a bit confused with the label 'choice':

When you are riding your bike and you apply the brakes, you may say, "I chose to turn left!". But where is the choice? Or is there just a narrative about 'choosing'? Try to watch how you assign the story of choice to your actions.

Even if you say, "I am going to choose left or right", notice how that decision appears? Is there really a choice, or does the 'answer' simply appear to you, which you then call 'choice'? Try to watch and see rather than figure it out.

Please say more if this, and these answers don't clarify..... please explain what confuses you.....

1. Where in actual experience can “something like a mental function or faculty" be found?
It can be found in thought.

Are you saying here that you think the mental faculty IS thought, or that it can only be found as an idea in the content of thought? Look carefully before you answer.


2. If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
It can only be chosen not to see what is seen, if you/I look somewhere else.

In the previous drink exercise and in this exercise you saw that there is no choosing what is seen. So, how do you choose to look somewhere else?


Here is an exercise for you to try...

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes.
Watch what focus does.
Focus on focussing, attention itself.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?
Hold focus on breath - see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds.
Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?


Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:34 pm

Hi Aragon,
But where is the choice? Or is there just a narrative about 'choosing'?
Even if you say, "I am going to choose left or right", notice how that decision appears? Is there really a choice, or does the 'answer' simply appear to you, which you then call 'choice'?
Please say more if this, and these answers don't clarify..... please explain what confuses you.....
I agree completely that choice is just happening! What I’m confused with is your writing from Wednesday saying: ‘the AE of choice is thought…… It’s nothing more than a thought’. In the drinking exercise there was thought in step 1. But in step 3 there was just choosing. In the palm exercise you where pointing out that thought is not controlling the movement.
Are you saying here that you think the mental faculty IS thought, or that it can only be found as an idea in the content of thought? Look carefully before you answer.
This might be a language problem. I translated mental function or faculty with thought. But this might be wrong.
In the previous drink exercise and in this exercise you saw that there is no choosing what is seen. So, how do you choose to look somewhere else?
Ok, I see what you mean. It’s just happening if I look somewhere else. It’s no choice.
Do you move it, or it moves by itself?
It moves by itself.
Is this something you control?
I cannot control it.
What moves attention? Can anything be found that moves attention, or does attention/focus move on its own?
It cannot be said what moves attention. Attention moves on its own.

Aragon, I'm going on a weekend-trip so my next response will be on monday maybe tuesday.

I wish you a good weekend, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:05 pm

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your reply, and no hurry to get back to me if you are away....

I am slightly struggling to find what you mean with the confusion re thought..... can you explain more clearly?

Just to be clear, I am not saying that thought is doing the choosing....

What I am saying is that the thought "I am going to choose left or right" is parked under the heading of 'choice'...when really it is simply AE of thought...remembering that the content of thought is fiction.

“Choice” and "decision" are just labels for certain types of thought. However, there are not many different thoughts or types of thought....it is only the content of thought that differs (and the content of thought is simply thoughts as well.)

Thoughts are simply thoughts. So "choice" is content of a thought. Choice is a story.

Notice when you think, I am going to choose left or right, one option appears as the answer to you as a thought (words or image). You can check this. Or when you are riding your bike, you swerve to avoid a pothole. We call that choosing but is that really choice, or is 'choice' just the narrative we place on it. Does the sun choose to rise? Does the leaf choose to be blown from the tree?

Tell me:

If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Since no thinker, controller or chooser can be found...is there anyone/anything that is responsible for anything?

And how do you currently feel about seeing there is no choice or decision maker and that 'choice' and 'decision' are simply thoughts and are AE of thought?


Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:20 am

Hi Aragon,
Just to be clear, I am not saying that thought is doing the choosing....
Ok., this helps! So I agree, choosing is not coming from thought, it’s just happening and we don’t know where the choice comes from.
What I am saying is that the thought "I am going to choose left or right" is parked under the heading of 'choice'...when really it is simply AE of thought...remembering that the content of thought is fiction.
Now it’s getting difficult. I read this and the following sentences at least 20 times and I don’t get it….. If the thought ‘I am going to choose left or right’ is a fiction, what I am going to do then? Is it a possibility not to do anything at all?
If you can't choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?
There is nothing else to choose.
Since no thinker, controller or chooser can be found...is there anyone/anything that is responsible for anything?
Nobody can be responsible for anything.
And how do you currently feel about seeing there is no choice or decision maker
I agree that there is no decision maker but there is a choice (left or right).
and that 'choice' and 'decision' are simply thoughts and are AE of thought?
This refers to the second answer….. If choice and decision are only thoughts this means choice and decision don’t exist. But in the drink exercise I/something did choose. My mind goes in circles. There is something I don’t get.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:02 pm

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your reply.....

What I am saying is that the thought "I am going to choose left or right" is parked under the heading of 'choice'...when really it is simply AE of thought...remembering that the content of thought is fiction.
Now it’s getting difficult. I read this and the following sentences at least 20 times and I don’t get it….. If the thought ‘I am going to choose left or right’ is a fiction, what I am going to do then? Is it a possibility not to do anything at all?


What “I” exactly that is doing anything? We've looked at the solidity of the head to find that there is no actual head...what is there is AE of sensation. So where is this "I" you are referring to?

Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

and that 'choice' and 'decision' are simply thoughts and are AE of thought?
This refers to the second answer….. If choice and decision are only thoughts this means choice and decision don’t exist. But in the drink exercise I/something did choose. My mind goes in circles. There is something I don’t get.

Exactly, choice and decision don’t exist! They are simply AE of thought and the content of the words 'choice' and decision' are simply thoughts about thought and are stories.

The thought 'left' or 'right arises. The action 'turn left' or 'turn right' arises. Are those thoughts chosen? Are those actions chosen? Or is 'choosing' simply another thought about what is happening / has happened?

Wactch all the 'choices' and 'decisions' these marbles make as they race down the hill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cBHmu_cNww



Re the drink exercise:

Where in the drink exercise did you find a you or something that chose a specific drink? Describe where this "I" is located exactly and describe it to me in detail.



Let’s have another look at the idea of decision/choice.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience for several minutes. Then read the following...

...for a decision/choice to be made that means:-

1. that there must be a someone or something, and
2. this someone/something is thinking
3. and this someone/something created and specifically chose which thoughts to think in the moment
4. and this someone/something then made a choice based on the decision made via thinking which hand to raise and when to raise it.
5. and through that choice, the thought chosen (eg raise right hand) was the catalyst that made the right hand raise (which is cause and effect = time)
6. and last but not least, that there are hands that can be raised!

So….can what is making the hand / arm rise into the air be FOUND?
What exactly is making that happen?

Can what chose that particular hand be FOUND?
What exactly is making the choice?



Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:31 pm

Hi Aragon,
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?
I feel myself being in the chestarea/heartarea. But it can also be the area of the whole body (my foot, my hand…). When I point with the finger I point to the chest.
The thought 'left' or 'right arises. The action 'turn left' or 'turn right' arises. Are those thoughts chosen? Are those actions chosen? Or is 'choosing' simply another thought about what is happening / has happened?
The youtube-clip really helped. Thanks a lot! Now I understand that choosing is a thought (fiction). So there is no choosing but only happening. And still it’s difficult to answer your questions: The thought left or right is not choosen, it just arises. That’s clear. But if the action left/right is not choosen how can any action happen. And I understand that choosing is just a thought.
Where in the drink exercise did you find a you or something that chose a specific drink? Describe where this "I" is located exactly and describe it to me in detail.
There was no ‘I’ or something that chose. But choosing did happen. And I know now that choosing is a thought/fiction.
So….can what is making the hand / arm rise into the air be FOUND?
What exactly is making that happen?
Nothing can be found that makes the hand rise. It’s just happening.
Can what chose that particular hand be FOUND?
No, nothing can be found that chose the hand.
What exactly is making the choice?
If we say that choice is a thought/fiction than there cannot be a choice. But the question is how can an action happen if there is no choice.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:24 am

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your answers.....
Thought says that the foot is ‘down there’. So presumably you are above your foot. Where are you? Sit quietly, close your eyes, take a few breaths and locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘you’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?
I feel myself being in the chestarea/heartarea. But it can also be the area of the whole body (my foot, my hand…). When I point with the finger I point to the chest.

It is generally believed that the sensation in the chest or around the head is where the “I” resides.
What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?
How is it different from other sensations?



The label 'chest' is AE of thought and not AE of a chest
Sensation labelled as 'chest'/ 'me' is AE of sensation and not AE of a me
Colour labelled 'body/me/I' is AE of colour and not AE of a me
Thoughts about a chest and a me located in the chest etc are AE of thought and not AE of a chest or me

So. all that is known is label + sensation +colour + thoughts about a chest and me. But is a chest or a me actually known? Can you find them in actual experience?


What exactly is making the choice?
If we say that choice is a thought/fiction than there cannot be a choice. But the question is how can an action happen if there is no choice.


"What says there has to be a reason for something to happen?'

Did you notice, that sometimes a choice happens...and thought comes in after the choice and says "I chose.........". And is not action just a happening. Since there is no controller....action is just happening.


Wishing you well.

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:43 pm

Hi Aragon,

sorry for answering late.
What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?
It’s more a vague feeling that there is the center of ‘I’.
How is it different from other sensations?
Other sensations are clear experiences like touching a book.
So. all that is known is label + sensation +colour + thoughts about a chest and me. But is a chest or a me actually known? Can you find them in actual experience?
No, a chest or a me cannot be known. Actual experience is only sensation, colour and thoughts.
"What says there has to be a reason for something to happen?'
That’s true, there is also the possibility that nothing happens.
Did you notice, that sometimes a choice happens...and thought comes in after the choice and says "I chose.........".
Yes, this can happen, when it doesn’t matter what I choose or if I don’t know what to choose.
And is not action just a happening. Since there is no controller....action is just happening.
This is really difficult for me to get: I’m standing at a crossroad (left/right) and I choose left because it’s going downhill. As I know, choice is thought and fiction I could also turn right (uphill) which would be the wrong (it’s thought!) decision. I could also choose no action but this feels strange. I’m a bit lost in this!

Thank You, Gerd

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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:54 am

Hi Gerd,

thanks for your answers.....


What is its quality that makes you associate the sensation with "you"?
It’s more a vague feeling that there is the center of ‘I’.

Where is this feeling? Can you find it to within an inch? Does this feeling know anything about a 'center' or an 'I'. Can a feeling know anything at all?


........................


How is it different from other sensations?
Other sensations are clear experiences like touching a book.

What is the difference between a 'clear' and an 'unclear' experience? Can 'clear' and 'unclear' be found in AE or are these just thought (labels) about experience?

Let's look at the idea of the differences between sensations.

Close your eyes and become aware of the sensations at the soles of your feet. Pay attention to the sensations for a minute or so.

Then, with your eyes still closed, I want you to clap your hands together really hard and notice the sensation for a minute or so.

Now compare the sensation of the soles of the feet and the sensations of your hands...what is the difference between them?

Thought would say one is a little more ‘intense’, but apart from that – any difference?




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"What says there has to be a reason for something to happen?'
That’s true, there is also the possibility that nothing happens.

This is just another thought about what happens - possibility or no possibility are just concepts or ideas about something. And it does not answer the question. The question asks what says there has to be a reason for something to happen? Why the need to allocate a reason?


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Did you notice, that sometimes a choice happens...and thought comes in after the choice and says "I chose.........".
Yes, this can happen, when it doesn’t matter what I choose or if I don’t know what to choose.

Isn't 'when it doesn’t matter what I choose or if I don’t know what to choose' also a thought that comes in after the choice is made? Cannot a thought also come in before an action and say, 'I am going to choose'.



Looking is a nice simple thing - there is no need to over-complicate it.

Just look now...a thought can be found, but can a thinker of thought be found?
Can an “I” be found in thought itself?

Sound can be found, but can a hearer of sounds be found?
Can an “I” be found in sound itself?

Colour can be found, but can a see-er of colour be found?
Can an “I” be found in colour itself?

Sensation can be found, but can a feeler of sensation be found?
Can an “I” be found in sensation itself?

Smell can be found, but can a smeller of smell be found?
Can an “I” be found in smell itself?

Taste can be found, but can a taster of taste be found?
Can an “I” be found in taste itself?

Experience can be found, but can an experiencer of experience be found?
It's as simple as that. Just look and see what is actually present - and what is only imaginary.



Did you find an "I" when doing the looking? If not, then what is it exactly that is choosing? Something is happening (that we call/label 'choosing'), but can you find anyone or anything that is doing the choosing?

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And is not action just a happening. Since there is no controller....action is just happening.
This is really difficult for me to get: I’m standing at a crossroad (left/right) and I choose left because it’s going downhill. As I know, choice is thought and fiction I could also turn right (uphill) which would be the wrong (it’s thought!) decision. I could also choose no action but this feels strange. I’m a bit lost in this!

You could go stand at the top of that hill and try and decide you are not going to choose for 24 hours. See if a choice is made :) Let me know what happens... ;)


Looking forward to your reply.

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala


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