Emptiness

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:01 am

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your reply....

My impression from your answers is that you are prepared to not stay with the exercise/looking until the answer is clear for you. But this will not get you anywhere. You need to determine the answer for yourself. Receiving the answer from me will do you no good at all if have not seen the truth of how it is arrived at. It is the seeing that provides the freedom. Maybe you could ask yourself if you are hungry for the truth or not?

You could stay with this exercise several days until you are 100% sure of the outcome, rather than settling for not being sure. Just drop me a line and let me know that this is what you are doing - that would be fine.

Is a thought controlling the palm? Or is there an assumption that thought is controlling the palm?

It’s very well possible that it’s an assumption. But when I turn the palm a thought seemingly says ‘do it now’ or ‘do it slowly’ or ‘fast’ and so on. It can be that the decision is not made through a thought and the thought claims it very quickly as its own decision. But then this happens so quickly that I cannot experience this!

Here again, you may need to repeat this exercise. It's about taking your time and doing them until you get to see what is being pointed at...look until you are clear about what is being pointed at. There is no destination point that will be reached in a certain time frame. It's all about the careful looking.

Nice noticing that the impulse to turn the palm happens and that thought then claims it. However, you need to be clear on whether it is a thought that is controlling it or whether it is an assumption. It is either an assumption or it isn't.

Did you at all notice that when the thought "turn the palm" arose, that the palm didn't turn? If thought were needed to turn the palm, and if thought was the catalyst that turned the palm, then the palm would turn every time the thought arose...whether you wanted it to or not and would not turn without a thought. If that were the case, then you would be aware of the thought each time it arose.

Can a thought be hidden? Can a thought happen without your knowing of it?

Look at this very carefully and go back and do the thought exercise where you had to look to see if you could predict your next thought...and redo that entire exercise several times to see the answer to these questions. Even redo looking for the gap between thoughts if that is going to be helpful to you.

Try to notice how things happen in life. Does the sun need a thought to move? The earth to turn? How about the wind? How about your beating heart? Your lungs? Your hair to grow. Your body when a car pulls out on you when you are riding? Your hands on the gears when you sense you have hit a gradient?

Notice what happens when you have an itch - how the hands move to it. Watch yourself eating breakfast, how the hands move, how the mouth opens and closes and so on.

Watch how your hands move in the shower. Maybe when you wash your hair?

Or the fingers as you type your reply to me.

Deeply immerse yourself in the curiosity of looking.... What is really happening?

Please take a couple of things like this in your daily, observe and write back what you find.

Is it possible for you to look without any pre-conceived ideas and just see what is happening?
The answer refers to the answer before: I don’t get what’s really happening.

That is fine. Not knowing how it happens is great because there is no knowing of how... but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?

Do you need a series of thoughts to walk/cycle. Or does walking/cycling happen without thoughts?
Yes, walking/cycling is happening by itself. But what is happening when I speed up or stop? Is this also happening by itself or is thought involved?

That is for you to look and see if it is thought that controls the speed or not! That is why you given the thought exercises so you could become aware of thoughts. If you don't become aware of thoughts, then we are going to get nowhere fast.

The whole point of giving you the palm exercise, and getting you to look when you walk or cycle, is so you can look at the pointers to see for yourself if thought is the controller!

LOOK and see if it is thought and come back and tell me what you find!


Are thoughts actually the catalyst for actions?
I don’t know?

And from this answer it shows that you are not looking carefully. It is quite obvious if thought is or isn't the catalyst for actions if you look.

So please look again and let me know if thoughts are the catalyst for actions.

If thoughts are about something else whilst walking/cycling, does walking/cycling cease?
I agree that it’s happening by itself. But where come all the decisions from: fast, slow, left, right, stop….?

I want you to look for yourself and tell me what you find. It's no good me telling you the answers. You need look and see for yourself if there is anyone or anything, including thoughts that is making any decisions for these things to happen. Let me know what you find.


Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:36 pm

Hi Aragon,
…you are prepared to not stay with the exercise/looking until the answer is clear for you.
I thought I read somewhere, that I’m expected to answer every 24h or so. So I normally do the exercises and try to answer as good as possible. If it’s possible to stay with the exercises for more time in order to get it clearer I will do this.
It is the seeing that provides the freedom.
I agree with you absolutely! And that’s what I’m here for! But if I don’t experience the ‘right’ answer I have to stay with the exercise.
Here again, you may need to repeat this exercise.
I do repeat the exercise several times every day.
It is either an assumption or it isn't.
I agree with this! But it’s not clear yet.
Did you at all notice that when the thought "turn the palm" arose, that the palm didn't turn?
I did not notice this but it’s an interesting hint. I don’t know if it’s enough to say thought is not involved?
Can a thought be hidden? Can a thought happen without your knowing of it?
I think there can be thoughts I’m not aware of so they seem to be hidden.
Try to notice how things happen in life. Does the sun need a thought to move? The earth to turn?...
I agree that there are no thoughts needed.
Please take a couple of things like this in your daily, observe and write back what you find.
It’s amazing how many things in life work without my thinking and active doing. There is a kind of relaxing feeling to all this.
.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
So the rest of the questions I’m not clear about. What I read about in the books, heard in the quotes and what everything is pointing to here, I can say ‘thought is not the controller’ but it’s not clear like CLEAR. I’ll work on it and hope it will get clearer.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:50 am

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your reply...
…you are prepared to not stay with the exercise/looking until the answer is clear for you.
I thought I read somewhere, that I’m expected to answer every 24h or so. So I normally do the exercises and try to answer as good as possible. If it’s possible to stay with the exercises for more time in order to get it clearer I will do this.

Yes, there are guidelines to answer every day. Really this is to create continuity and momentum which really helps. But if it i feeling rushed and/or you could do with more time, that is fine :) Just let me know. Maybe you could let me know every few days that you are still looking because sometimes these threads drop off, and then I would at least know what is happening...?


It is the seeing that provides the freedom.
I agree with you absolutely! And that’s what I’m here for! But if I don’t experience the ‘right’ answer I have to stay with the exercise.

Yes, please stay with the exercise until you see clearly the answer. But keep letting me know how you are getting on, as I may be able to help point you to clarity if you are struggling to see :)


Here again, you may need to repeat this exercise.
I do repeat the exercise several times every day.

Great, keep doing that :)


It is either an assumption or it isn't.
I agree with this! But it’s not clear yet.

Be creative with it. You could hold the thought, 'is thought moving the hand', repeating the thought if necessary.

Does the hand still move?


Did you at all notice that when the thought "turn the palm" arose, that the palm didn't turn?
I did not notice this but it’s an interesting hint. I don’t know if it’s enough to say thought is not involved?

Again, play with it.... in a relaxed way. Be curious. Play....


Can a thought be hidden? Can a thought happen without your knowing of it?
I think there can be thoughts I’m not aware of so they seem to be hidden.

Are they hidden, or are you just involved in their content? Is a hidden thought known, or is there just a thought about a thought that isn't known?


Try to notice how things happen in life. Does the sun need a thought to move? The earth to turn?...
I agree that there are no thoughts needed.

Are you not the same? Try to drop the ideas you have been taught and see what is happening.



Please take a couple of things like this in your daily, observe and write back what you find.
It’s amazing how many things in life work without my thinking and active doing. There is a kind of relaxing feeling to all this.

Nice. Follow this :)

.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
So the rest of the questions I’m not clear about. What I read about in the books, heard in the quotes and what everything is pointing to here, I can say ‘thought is not the controller’ but it’s not clear like CLEAR. I’ll work on it and hope it will get clearer.

Great, yes. Notice in different situations what is happening.



I would suggest that you go back to the beginning of his thread, reread it and redo the exercises and to take several days in doing so. It's all about clarity, not speed, so this could really benefit you....

Let me know what remains unclear. I look forward to your reply.

Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:42 pm

Hi Aragon,
Does the hand still move?
Yes, the hand still moves.
I did not notice this but it’s an interesting hint. I don’t know if it’s enough to say thought is not involved?
Again, play with it.... in a relaxed way. Be curious. Play....
When I do the palm-exercise it happens that my thoughts go somewhere else and the palm is turning… so apparently then thoughts are not involved. But when I’m concentrating on the palm it still seems a thought is turning the hand. If the thought claims it only and is not initiating it, there must be a trigger or something happening shortly before. So I try to get this trigger-point but did not succeed yet.
Are they hidden, or are you just involved in their content? Is a hidden thought known, or is there just a thought about a thought that isn't known?
A hidden thought cannot be known otherwise it would not be hidden. I think there are no hidden thoughts, there are just thoughts I’m involved in and so I’m only partly aware of.
Are you not the same? Try to drop the ideas you have been taught and see what is happening.
It’s unusual to think this. The sun needs no thought, the earth needs no thought….. so I need no thought too. It’s an interesting experience. What I realize is that life is getting easier and more relaxed. And it feels a bit daring and… strange.
.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
I have the feeling that something is moving inside me but it’s difficult to describe. But I’m not clear about it yet.

Aragon, I want to announce that I will go on a 2,5 weeks holiday next Sunday. It’s planned to be back on 14th of Oct.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:27 am

Hi Gerd,

Thanks for your answers.....

Does the hand still move?
Yes, the hand still moves.

Great, keep noticing this - keep watching and SEEING it happen...

I did not notice this but it’s an interesting hint. I don’t know if it’s enough to say thought is not involved?
Again, play with it.... in a relaxed way. Be curious. Play....
When I do the palm-exercise it happens that my thoughts go somewhere else and the palm is turning… so apparently then thoughts are not involved. But when I’m concentrating on the palm it still seems a thought is turning the hand. If the thought claims it only and is not initiating it, there must be a trigger or something happening shortly before. So I try to get this trigger-point but did not succeed yet.

Can you see that as you are looking a thought arises which says, 'If the thought claims it only and is not initiating it, there must be a trigger or something happening shortly before. So I try to get this trigger-point but did not succeed yet.'

Just to make you aware of that. The question is simply: Is thought the controller to action?


Are they hidden, or are you just involved in their content? Is a hidden thought known, or is there just a thought about a thought that isn't known?
A hidden thought cannot be known otherwise it would not be hidden. I think there are no hidden thoughts, there are just thoughts I’m involved in and so I’m only partly aware of.

Yes, a hidden thought cannot be known. Have you any evidence (from experience) that there is such a thing as a hidden thought, or is this just an idea (a thought)?


Are you not the same? Try to drop the ideas you have been taught and see what is happening.
It’s unusual to think this. The sun needs no thought, the earth needs no thought….. so I need no thought too. It’s an interesting experience. What I realize is that life is getting easier and more relaxed. And it feels a bit daring and… strange.

Lovely - keep looking.....


.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
I have the feeling that something is moving inside me but it’s difficult to describe. But I’m not clear about it yet.

Again nice, keep looking :)


Aragon, I want to announce that I will go on a 2,5 weeks holiday next Sunday. It’s planned to be back on 14th of Oct.

No worries, will you be out of touch during this time then?

I would just encourage you to keep looking whilst you are away..... here is another exercise for you to go on with while away.....

You can do this with making coffee, showering, walking in nature...whatever!

So let’s start looking at control, decision making and choice with waking up in the morning and getting out of bed.

- Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
- Where does the ‘decision’, the ‘command’ to get up come from?
- What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
- When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?
- How does the decision happen?
- Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
- Or does getting up just happen, or not?
- Did an 'I' perform assessments and calculations necessary to heave a body into an upright position and then continue to take many decisions about moving legs into exactly the right positions to do 'walking to the kettle'?



Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:55 pm

Hi Aragon,
Yes, the hand still moves.
Great, keep noticing this - keep watching and SEEING it happen...
Ok. So I keep on doing the palm exercise.
Can you see that as you are looking a thought arises which says, 'If the thought claims it only and is not initiating it, there must be a trigger or something happening shortly before. So I try to get this trigger-point but did not succeed yet.'
Just to make you aware of that. The question is simply: Is thought the controller to action?
Ok., I can see that's a thought! So it’s just about doing the exercise and watching and not trying to solve it with thoughts. But anyway it’s not clear yet!
Yes, a hidden thought cannot be known. Have you any evidence (from experience) that there is such a thing as a hidden thought, or is this just an idea (a thought)?
No, there is no evidence/experience about a hidden thought, it’s just an idea.
It’s unusual to think this. The sun needs no thought, the earth needs no thought….. so I need no thought too. It’s an interesting experience. What I realize is that life is getting easier and more relaxed. And it feels a bit daring and… strange.
Lovely - keep looking.....
It’s interesting, I start to like this experience. I try to stay with this as often as possible.
.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
I have the feeling that something is moving inside me but it’s difficult to describe. But I’m not clear about it yet.
Again nice, keep looking :)
It seems to be a process. All I can do is stay with it. There is no big bang yet!
No worries, will you be out of touch during this time then?
Yes, I will be out of touch. We will be in the mountains without internet-connection. Plans changed and we will leave on Monday now.
.... here is another exercise for you to go on with while away.....
Ok. I will work with this exercise whilst I’m away. It seems to connect to the palm exercise…..so the answers will not be easy.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:33 am

Hi Gerd,

Have a great holiday and I look forward to catching up with you when you get back.

Please just carry on with what you're doing, and just look from time to time during the day.

The expectation that there is going to be a big bang is simply an expectation. It may or may not happen like that, but often isn't the case.

Likewise, the expectation that the answers are not going to be easy.... Can you recognise that as a thought?

Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:03 pm

Hi Aragon,

I'm back again. Everything went well and we had a good and relaxing time.
Ok. so I try to catch up where we stopped two weeks ago:
It’s unusual to think this. The sun needs no thought, the earth needs no thought….. so I need no thought too. It’s an interesting experience. What I realize is that life is getting easier and more relaxed. And it feels a bit daring and… strange.
Lovely - keep looking.....
It’s interesting, I start to like this experience. I try to stay with this as often as possible.
I still like doing this exercise and it’s relaxing result. But it’s not an insight yet. It’s more like a different way of thinking.
.. but are you clear that a thought isn't the controller?
I have the feeling that something is moving inside me but it’s difficult to describe. But I’m not clear about it yet.
Again nice, keep looking :)
It seems to be a process. All I can do is stay with it. There is no big bang yet!
I’m still doing the palm exercise every day and I’m not really clear yet that thought isn’t the controller. I think there is something moving. Maybe some kind of softening of old thinking habits.
- Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
A decision maker cannot be found.
- Where does the ‘decision’, the ‘command’ to get up come from?
It seems to be a thought that decides to get up now….. like the palm exercise.
- What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
It seems to be a thought like ‘otherwise you get late or miss the train’.
- When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?
No, it doesn‘t affect the outcome.
- How does the decision happen?
It seems to happen through thinking.
- Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
It seems that thinking is weighing pros and cons.
- Or does getting up just happen, or not?
Sometimes it seems that getting up just happens (e.g. on weekends :-)).
- Did an 'I' perform assessments and calculations necessary to heave a body into an upright position and then continue to take many decisions about moving legs into exactly the right positions to do 'walking to the kettle'?
The action of getting up itself happens without thoughts.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:52 am

Hi Gerd,

Welcome back.....

I wonder if you are expecting to see something here..instead of just seeing what is actually happening in your direct experience.

I wonder if you are letting thought be the determiner of what you see, rather than just staying with what you see...

What would you need to happen in order to see that thought is not the controller of moving the palm or getting out of bed?

If you can see that the palm doesn't flip each time a thought says to flip it...then what is your expectation here?

And how would you determine when this has become an 'insight (rather than a new way of thinking)'?


......

We know that we are pointing towards thought NOT being the controller of actions.

This morning I was laying in bed - perhaps like your weekends. I had the thought several times to 'get up' but nothing happened. Then suddenly the body got up.....

I place a pen in front of me. I 'allow' the thought 'pick up the pen', yet nothing happens. The thought repeats yet nothing happens. I actually never pick up the pen.

I sit on the chair. There is the thought, 'I will just sit here for an hour, no movement at all. I won't even blink'. I 'allow' that thought as many times as I want. Yet I still move....

Can you bring this into your life more? Can you be curious? Notice from the body more rather than watching just for the thought. Feel the impulses to move that are happening all the time. The slight adjustment the body is making with each experience. Come out of thought and see what is actually happening.

Notice when you wash the dishes how the hands move. Do you need a thought for every movement of doing dishes? Feel the impulses to move that are happening all the time. How about when you shave, or shower, or wash your hair?

Can you do a Rubiks cube? Or a jigsaw? or a computer game? Is thought really determining every action you make? Watch and see....


Here is a video that might help. I am giving it to you as it might help to undermine your views about thought. But thought could quite easily step in and form new views about what you see, so please be aware of that.

And this is not to convince you. You still need to do the exercises and see. But hopefully it will help:

https://vimeo.com/90101368

Let me know how you get on with all that I have said here,

Be well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:53 pm

Hi Aragon,
What would you need to happen in order to see that thought is not the controller of moving the palm or getting out of bed?
I would need a seeing or understanding that thought is not the controller.
If you can see that the palm doesn't flip each time a thought says to flip it...then what is your expectation here?
If a thought says ‘flip the palm’ there are both possibilities, the palm can flip or not. My expectation is to get it clear that thought is not the controller.
And how would you determine when this has become an 'insight (rather than a new way of thinking)'?
An insight is a knowing for sure. For me ‘a new way of thinking’ implies a kind of uncertainty. Do I understand you correctly that there is no need for an insight and ‘a new way of thinking’ is enough?
Notice when you wash the dishes how the hands move. Do you need a thought for every movement of doing dishes? Feel the impulses to move that are happening all the time. How about when you shave, or shower, or wash your hair?
Yes, I can see that. There are so many things I’m doing during the day and there are no thoughts needed.
Can you do a Rubiks cube? Or a jigsaw? or a computer game? Is thought really determining every action you make? Watch and see....
No, I don’t need thought for every action.
Here is a video that might help.
Thank you for the video! The result is really amazing. It’s very interesting to see the topic from a scientific viewpoint. It helps!

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:35 am

Hi Gerd,
What would you need to happen in order to see that thought is not the controller of moving the palm or getting out of bed?
I would need a seeing or understanding that thought is not the controller.

It would seem the understanding is there, given you can see that the palm doesn't flip each time it is asked to flip and that you don't need thought for every action....

How would this seeing (or understanding) look? What do you expect to see?


Also....


what would it mean to you if it were true that there were no thought as controller. If you hold that as true, do you experience resistance to that? What does the resistance 'say'. What are the implications? Why is it so hard to take in? Just be as honest as possible with yourself here. Is there any fear?

And...

Why is it so easy for you to believe thought is the controller? Where is your proof of this? Why is it so easy to believe this when the hand doesn't always turn?


Wishing you well,

Aragon.
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:11 pm

Hi Aragon,
How would this seeing (or understanding) look? What do you expect to see?
This reminds me of the story of Santa Claus. When I/one sees that Santa Claus is not Santa Claus this is/was very obvious. That thought is not the controller is not yet that obvious for me. I agree absolutely that there are so many/most actions during the day where thought is not involved. Things/Doings are just happening by themselves without thought. But sometimes it seems that thought is involved.
what would it mean to you if it were true that there were no thought as controller. If you hold that as true, do you experience resistance to that? What does the resistance 'say'. What are the implications? Why is it so hard to take in? Just be as honest as possible with yourself here. Is there any fear?
If it’s true that thought is not the controller……. Some days ago I was writing that life seems to be easier and more relaxed. And it feels a bit daring and strange. What I can write today is that feelings are changing: sometimes I feel resistance, fear and uncertainty. But also there is excitement and a feeling of freedom. It is like I was driving on the right hand side for all my life and now it’s about driving on the left hand side….. this feels strange!!
Why is it so easy for you to believe thought is the controller? Where is your proof of this? Why is it so easy to believe this when the hand doesn't always turn?
Because I was driving on the right hand side for all my life! But sometimes the hand turns….. I’m not sure yet.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:51 am

Hi Gerd,

I like what you have written in reply. I would just keep looking. Here are some questions that you can use to return to during life, or in the next few exercises (rather than answering now):

......................

- Can an actual controller or thinker of any description be found in the thought itself, to "flip palm"?

- Can an actual controller of any description (can an "I") be found in the movement/sensation itself of the flipping palm?

- Can an actual controller of any description (can an "I") be found in the actual colour labelled 'hand'?

......................


Whilst I'd encourage the continued looking into this, let us move on a little.....

Let's have a closer look at the idea of hand moving. Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight (ie colour) - the object seen. In this example, the object being the ‘hand’ (colour labelled as ‘hand’)

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…


Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words, is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?



Look forward to seeing what you find,

Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Gerd
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Gerd » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:08 pm

Hi Aragon,
Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ (colour) and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?
Yes, I can see that ‘visual sight’ and ‘sensation’ appear independently through different ‘channels’ (eyes-feelings). None is containing the other.
Do they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?
They appear equally without any hierarchy or link.
Is there any link between the sensation and the sight ie colour? In other words, is the sensation actually ‘coming from’ the sight (colour labelled as ‘hand’), or only thought and mental constructs link them?
No, there is no link between them. The only link exists in thought or mental construction.

Thank You, Gerd

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Aragon
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Re: Emptiness

Postby Aragon » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:17 am

Hi Gerd,

Nice looking - that all seems clear to you....?

Here is a great clip which shows how there is no correlation between sensation and hand!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dphlhmt ... e=youtu.be


Let's continue looking at control, decisions and choice.....


The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

You need to get any two different drinks you like for this exercise, ie coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc. One will be drink A the other will be drink B


Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.


Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.


In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?



As usual, please answer ALL questions individually. And try to give more than a yes or no :)


Looking forward to your answers.

Wishing you well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala


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