Apologies for the delay, I thought I had posted but apparently not.....
What is meant by “face value”? The dictionary says: apparent value. Is this correct?AE is simply the raw experience of colour, sound, smell, taste, sensation and the face value of thought.
It means the raw experience of thought without being in the story.....
Have you ever looked at white clouds in a blue sky, and seen shapes, maybe animals? The raw experience is just colour, but thought 'creates' animals.
Have you ever had someone speak to you in a language you don't understand... you hear the sound, but there is no meaning....
You hear the label 'light switch' in your head, recognise the arising of that thought, but no need to go into the meaning.
Or you see an image in your head, which like the sky and clouds is really just colour (raw experience) but you interpret it to be something, or have a meaning....
A bit like the raw experience of watching TV is just colour. There are no real people or cars or houses, just colour being blended (on a screen).
Close your eyes, imagine a fruit you really love. For me it's a delicious, sweet, juicy peach.
Imagine it as clearly as you can. See its colour, touch its downy, soft skin, smell that delicious peachy aroma.
Imagine biting into the soft flesh and feeling the flavour explode across your tongue as the juice runs down your chin.
Are you imagining it?
Now open your eyes.
Is there a peach, was there ever?
In this example, no matter how vivid it may have seemed, was thought pointing to actual experience, or was thought pointing to simply other thoughts, which includes the mental image of a peach?
Yes, I can see the labelling.Do you experience the naming of that object? Maybe a voice speaking in the head or something?
That is thought labelling (being experienced)......
Can you see that?
Great, that is you experiencing a thought. Thoughts and labels are one and the same. You are confusing a stream of thoughts which = thinking, but a stream of thoughts is still made up of thoughts.
Yes, I can see the image in the mind. The experience of smelling, hearing…. is different from seeing the image. But I can call this seeing also an experience.Do you see an image in the mind? That is thought as a mental image?
Do you still think there is nothing to be experienced?
So there is a thought(s) that says, "The experience of smelling, hearing…. is different from seeing the image. But I can call this seeing also an experience."
But that is going into the story. Remember you are just being asked what you find (without going into thoughts about it). Do you see an image or not? No need to move into an analysis of it.
Even the word 'experience' is an interpretation. Just see that you find. Remember, it's smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Nothing else.
Yes, I can agree with this, there is a thought in reality but the content is fiction.So, we can say, that in actual experience, the arising of a thought (the container) is real, but what it’s ABOUT, the content, is not. The thought (as container) is there in reality, but the content of a thought is fiction.
Do you see the difference?
Yes, great. Try to notice the thoughts that are arising as you go through your day. We are often caught in the story even when we don't realise it.
Yes, this was not very precise, sorry: So, the only two things there are, are the experience of the sound and the mind telling it’s the sound of a car.How do you mean the 'experience'. The experience of what exactly? And why write (mind) after sound?
There is sound, yes. Why the need to write 'experience'?
And you are talking about mind again. The mind is not found in AE. Thought is found. Mind is label which points to thought but it is not found in AE. That is why we asked the next question.
The label ‘mind’ is AE of thought and not AE of a mind
Where in colour, sound, smell, taste and sensation can a ‘mind’ be found? Can the mind, like the imaginary peach be found, or only thoughts about a mind? Can a mind be found anywhere, ever?
Does the thought/label ‘mind’ actually contain a mind, or is it simply a thought; therefore only points to AE of thought?
Thoughts, in and of themselves, do not contain any experience, if they did then the word ‘hot’ would feel hot, and the thought ‘sweet’ would taste sweet.
I don’t know… somewhere where thinking happens… in the brain?Where is the 'mind' located exactly?
You are not looking, you are thinking and thinking is not the tool to use here. Shifting from thinking to looking can be frustrating and require some practice. This is about noticing what can be found in your immediate actual experience, noticing what's going on here now ie sound, colour, smell, taste, sensation and face value of thought.
The question is asked to get you to look, Can you look in your direct actual experience and find the mind? Or do you just find thought?
To say, 'somewhere where thinking happens… in the brain' is not experiential, but ideas/concepts you have learned. Here you have gone into the story of thought, which earlier you agreed was fiction....
What does the word/label ‘brain’ point to? Does it point to colour, smell, taste, sound, sensation or thought?
As I cannot look at “mind”, like looking at a table or a house, I cannot describe it.Please describe in precise detail what this 'mind' looks like.
Because you cannot find it perhaps?
Yes, it does make sense. Just to clarify: with “the face value of thought” you mean the container of the thought?But the meaning of the thoughts is story, not AE. In AE there is just sound + the Face Value of Thought.
Does that make sense?
Yes, as per my earlier answer, I hope this is clearer.
I would really encourage you to repeat the exercise. If there is anything else other than the sound and the thought-label, please check if this is not just an idea about what is happening, rather than AE. See what you find.
Wishing you well,