Seeking Peace

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Sara2
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:20 pm

Hi Stacy,
The question is how is that a good thing? What kinds of good have come out of being disappointed?
Being disappointed has seemed to motivate me to make positive change in my life, for sure.
How might you be a better person for having gotten through being disappointed?
I am more confident in my ability to get through difficult situations and more empathetic to others.
Have things ever turned out unexpectedly better after a disappointment?
Yes. I don't always know best. Shocker!
What else? Just 3 proofs.
Going back to school to become an RN and changing careers.
More empathy and compassion for people struggling with situations I've been through and been disappointed by.
Motivation to do this kind of work and seek truth, because I know that true satisfaction can't really be found "out there".
How are you doing with the original idea after that? Does it still seem true?
I've started noticing how quickly my mind find things disappointing. Very small things that create a lot of irritation, but I can observe more now and relax. There is less of a hook. I feel much more open to the fact that if I lose something I want or don't get what I want, I'm being spared. Reality isn't against me. There is certainly a shift around this that I will continue to meditate on and have taken some of these other things to my facilitator to work on as well!

I will post back with the stream exercise and questions.

Thanks!

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:34 am

Excellent!

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:27 am

Hi Stacy,

Apparently my last post didn't post. Just checked since I hadn't gotten and email notification in a few days. I'm at work right now but will get it off my computer when I get home and repost it! Just didn't want you to think I went MIA.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:24 pm

Oh good. I was Bedingfield beginning to wonder. People do ghost us sometimes.

Thanks!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:49 pm

Hi there! No ghosting. Just pulled the site up on my home computer and apparently I never hit submit on this the other day. So sorry!

Stream Exercise
Does it choose any of its directions?
No, it lets the direction happen.
Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
It's always just adapting to it's surroundings/conditions.
1. Can you find anywhere where 'insert name' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?
It doesn't appear that there is. My thinking tells me "I" am making decisions, but looking back on those decisions it doesn't appear anyone is running the show.
2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are color preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc.
When making a decision, like what to wear, my color preferences come from past conditions/thoughts like "black is slimming or blue looks great with my hair color", certain clothes I have memories of being more comfortable then others. I wear jeans and a sweater over shorts and a tshirt depending on the weather. Where I'm going and what activity I'm planning to do that day. The thinking mind is somewhat helpful here!
Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life?
There doesn't appear to be one.
Can you find someone somewhere?
No.
3. Can anything be found for which 'insert name' is responsible – if so responsible to what
and for what?
No. I can't find anything/anyone responsible when I look. Seems like causes and conditions for what happens is endless.
Relax into it. Describe
I see that I'm just doing life, flowing with it, even when my thinking tells me I'm not or that I should be doing it differently or better. Seems like choice is an illusion.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:50 am

Hi Sara,

Third time's a charm. I just learned a new way to lose the detailed answers I was composing for you on my phone. Back to the laptop!

*sigh*

Okay, there is still a lot of thinking in your answers, but in some places it does sound like you LOOKED. Remember Colored Socks? Thinking is a habit to overcome for these exercises (perhaps for life).

Yes, the stream just lets the direction happen.
Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
It's always just adapting to it's surroundings/conditions.
Can you see how you answered a question that was not asked? And did not answer the questions that were asked? Look carefully there.

Don't worry. It happens all the time. Please look at it again and answer what was asked.


Yes, exactly, only your thinking tells you that you did something called "making a decision." But LOOKING, you can see this isn't so. We'll do at least one more exercise on that.
The thinking mind is somewhat helpful here!
Are you sure about that? Is it really? How is that if it is only telling stories? Not actually *doing* anything? Look closely at this, too.


Right. No autonomous intervention can be SEEN. No one intervening.
I see that I'm just doing life, flowing with it, even when my thinking tells me I'm not or that I should be doing it differently or better. Seems like choice is an illusion.
True.
No. I can't find anything/anyone responsible when I look. Seems like causes and conditions for what happens is endless.
Yes.

Very good, Sara. You are beginning to unravel the stories you were taught and beginning to SEE without them.

Okay, answer the few things in this and then we'll do another exercise about this.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:59 pm

Hi Stacy,

Yes, the thinking is a very strong habit and it wants to answer the questions "correctly". I see that it gets in the way without my knowing it sometimes.
Can you see how you answered a question that was not asked? And did not answer the questions that were asked? Look carefully there.
I do see that now. I think this is a difficult question for me or at least for my mind to wrap around because my initial reaction is that yes, they are separate things.
Don't worry. It happens all the time. Please look at it again and answer what was asked.
Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?
I see that what we call a "stream" is made up of many parts and pieces. My initial thought is the stream is the water, but thats not true, it needs the water as well as the rocks and the depression in the ground to be a "stream". It is constantly changing with the weather. Even on a sunny day, it's slowly losing water that will be returned to it when the rain comes.
Are you sure about that? Is it really? How is that if it is only telling stories? Not actually *doing* anything? Look closely at this, too.
I guess i was thinking that thoughts like "it's 50 degrees today, better grab a sweater, are helpful. Obviously because the mind has a story to show me of a time I did not grab a sweater and was cold. It isn't really "doing" anything.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:35 pm

Hi Sara,

All of that reply came from thinking, not looking. You say "I see," but check... isn't what follows all content of thought?
I see that what we call a "stream" is made up of many parts and pieces. My initial thought. . .
Again, don't worry about it. It's my job to point in ways that help you to SEE.

You're starting to get it.

Remember, we don't care what thoughts say. That means we don't care what is "thought" only what is SEEN.

I'm going to switch tracks for a minute and give you an exercise where you will you pretty much have to LOOK the way I'm describing. This is the only exercise I was given when I was guided here.

LOOK at the place where your butt meets the chair. Can you find a place where your bottom ends and the chair begins? Remember it is the looking that matters not finding.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:03 am

LOOK at the place where your butt meets the chair. Can you find a place where your bottom ends and the chair begins? Remember it is the looking that matters not finding.
I’ve been playing with this the past few days. Thought comes in with all types of explanations and perspectives but without paying attention to that and just sitting in the question, the question kind of seems to dissolve...there’s just awareness of body sitting in a chair. Then it’s just sensation.

It’s hard to describe without getting back into thinking/thoughts. I do feel the difference between sitting with something and thinking about something and trying to figure it out, which comes much more naturally to me. I’ve heard people say the mind doesn’t ever wake up...hmmm.

Much love,
Sara

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:25 pm

Good morning!

Yes.
there’s just awareness of body sitting in a chair. Then it’s just sensation.
Yes! Sensation. Relax in that.
I do feel the difference between sitting with something and thinking about something and trying to figure it out, which comes much more naturally to me. I’ve heard people say the mind doesn’t ever wake up...hmmm.
That sounds correct. The mind doesn't wake up. It just keeps thinking. Ignore thinking. Just relax

Yes, it's a new skill. That's why we practice. Keep doing that any time you think of it.

You can try this, too:

Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience.
Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?



Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:11 am

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
I don’t know. The one hand is being raised and one is not. That may change the next time I do the exercise or it may not.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
No. I have no idea why one is being lifted and not the other.
What is it that is controlling the hand?
I don’t really know. Nothing that I can find.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No.
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No.
How is the decision made?
I really don’t know how it’s made. It just happens that one lifts and the other doesn’t. I notice one lifts more then the other, but I don’t know why...

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:23 pm

Hi Sara,

Great. Yes.

So, did you *think* or *feel* or *see* to find those answers?

How does it FEEL to see that you don't know how any of this hand raising happens?

When you relax into SEEING this, how does that FEEL?


I realize you, like me, are more comfortable with words, which is fine. But what we call here SEEING goes beyond words. It actually goes beyond seeing, too. It is hard to explain, but unmistakable when it happens. Very much like the old woman/young woman pictures. Have I mentioned those?

We are just life life-ing.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sara2
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:21 am

Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Sara2 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:20 am

So, did you *think* or *feel* or *see* to find those answers?
I still feel confused about “seeing” and not sure if I’m doing it...but what this seemed like was dropping more into my body and feeling, the desire for the mind to answer, then dropping back into the body and feeling...and seeing that I just don’t know. I thoughts seem to come in and claim the action, but it seems like they come after the fact, I can’t be sure. It’s hard for me to not know, even though I have never known, but I also feel the space and relief of not knowing.
How does it FEEL to see that you don't know how any of this hand raising happens?
Uncomfortable, but then relaxed and free. I so desperately want to grasp this with my mind, but that has never worked. So this felt different.
When you relax into SEEING this, how does that FEEL?
There is definitely a sense of peace. I see this when doing “the work” sometimes, when I take the time to really sit with a question. I saw it when doing this too. It’s hard to describe. I think I look for it to be some kind of bliss type experience, but it’s not that, it’s just contentment or ok-ness, or something like that. Or a clarity that isn’t a yes or no answer.

You have not mentioned the old woman/young woman photos. Please do though!

Sara

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:26 am

Hi Sara,

Okay, the old woman/young woman is one of many optical illusion type drawings that can be seen as 2 entirely different pictures. It is a good example of what SEEING is like. Once seen, it cannot be unseen. And it was there all along.

Here is a link to one of these:

https://images.app.goo.gl/XLTncPRy6qKhpo5Z6

It's also like finding out there is no Santa Claus. A story was told, believed, internalized. But then once you see your father or someone, once you know it's a costume, you can never believe in it again. It must be seen. Thinking is useless.
When you relax into SEEING this, how does that FEEL?
There is definitely a sense of peace. I see this when doing “the work” sometimes, when I take the time to really sit with a question. I saw it when doing this too. It’s hard to describe. I think I look for it to be some kind of bliss type experience, but it’s not that, it’s just contentment or ok-ness, or something like that. Or a clarity that isn’t a yes or no answer.
Yes, that is in the ballpark of how it feels. Have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers?" Or "Liberation Unleashed?" That might help you see some various experiences.

Sports Exercise

Please note that you will have to check the link when using this exercise, to make sure it is still viable, as sometimes they are removed from Youtube.

The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game. If you prefer another sport (or dance or gymnastics - it just needs narration of some kind) ...please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice. It seems to feel as though they can influence, somehow, what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.
What did you find when doing this exercise?

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Anastacia42
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Re: Seeking Peace

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:15 pm

Hi Sara,

I want to mention that there is a reason we ask "how willing are you, on a scale of 1 -10 to question your beliefs about self?" Because at anything less than at least 8, you won't have the determination to see this through, won't give it attention every day and won't post every day until you see. I know it may feel like you have no time, but it seems that we can always find 10 to 20 minute *somewhere* if it's really important. Otherwise, it's fear getting in the way, usually.

That reminds me - how is your sister? Is this part of the delay?

I hope all is well with you.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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