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Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:36 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,

I tried with number of activities today. I was also driving for over 3 hours. With everything I look at it's obvious it's automatic. There are automatic thoughts. No choosing, they just appear. Almost like given from somewhere. Then actions unfold. There is no control of movements of body. Lot is going on in body. Unbelievably lot. Music, events, words said trigger various sensations in body.

This is very exercise useful and I feel like spending more deliberate time is making this more clear and easier to see. I will definitely continue. I do not feel I can easily recognize those times when there is a feeling of "me being in control". I would like to play with that a bit.

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:36 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,

How things are going?
Is it clear that the show is going on by itself?
Is it clear that the separate self is a myth?
Is there any doubt?


Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:26 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,

Thank you for checking with me. Appreciate it.
How things are going?
There is some change, which I cannot pin point or name, but feels like some things changed. When I wake up in the morning I immediately notice a pleasant lightness in the body. Comfort. Okayness. My job is very intellectual and thinking oriented. But anytime during day I spontaneously check "what is here, now?". And there is no resistance or tension. Just somehow pleasant experiences of this moment. I much prefer to walk outside now, it is super enjoyable to be there in nature. I'm still exploring.
Is it clear that the show is going on by itself?
Yes it is clear. Every aspect of experience when looked at is clearly unfolding on its own. This is a good exercise to continue with.
Is it clear that the separate self is a myth?
It is clearly self is only in thoughts as a fantasy. There is no self here right now.
Is there any doubt?
Cannot see any doubt at the moment. Hope the time will validate this as you mentioned some flip flopping can happen. Will see. :)

Thanks once more for your guidance Vivien. I'm most grateful.
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:26 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,

Thank you for your reply.
There is some change, which I cannot pin point or name, but feels like some things changed. When I wake up in the morning I immediately notice a pleasant lightness in the body. Comfort. Okayness. My job is very intellectual and thinking oriented. But anytime during day I spontaneously check "what is here, now?". And there is no resistance or tension. Just somehow pleasant experiences of this moment. I much prefer to walk outside now, it is super enjoyable to be there in nature. I'm still exploring.
I’m glad to hear this. My suggestion is that in the following days I give you some more questions and pointers to make sure that everything is clear.

Is there anything that is not happening automatically? Anything at all?

Is there anything that is separate from the whole, from life / experience happening?

Is experience / life happening TO the body or AS the body?

Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:48 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Viven,
My suggestion is that in the following days I give you some more questions and pointers to make sure that everything is clear.
I'd love that.
Is there anything that is not happening automatically? Anything at all?
Cannot find anything. It's like a flow.
Is there anything that is separate from the whole, from life / experience happening?
Everything is experienced equally. Can't find any inside or outside. Can't find anything separate out of this.
Is experience / life happening TO the body or AS the body?
Body is also experience, part of the whole, so I guess that is what you mean by "as the body".

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:54 pm
by Vivien
Hi Peter,
V: Is there anything that is not happening automatically? Anything at all?
P: Cannot find anything. It's like a flow.
You cannot find anything that is not automatic, or there is nothing that is not happening automatically?

What is the difference between Peter and Batman?

Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:44 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivian,
You cannot find anything that is not automatic, or there is nothing that is not happening automatically?
There is nothing not happening automatically here.
What is the difference between Peter and Batman?
Neither of them is here. Both exist only in thoughts as stories. Different stories though.

To be perfectly honest there is a bit of confusion what this should be, how it should be.

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:31 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,
To be perfectly honest there is a bit of confusion what this should be, how it should be.
How do you know that this should be in a certain way?
How do you know that it should be any other way than how it is?
Is there something missing here now?
Is seeking still on?

Is there someone or something in charge of life?
Is there an experiencer added to experience?

How does it FEEL to see that there is no separate self other than an idea?
What do you notice in normal everyday life?


Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:37 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,
How do you know that this should be in a certain way?
How do you know that it should be any other way than how it is?
I don't. First 3-4 days last week were different. Now it seems like flipping back. Attention is on thoughts big time of the day and lightness and okayness is gone. There is some frustration and confusion.
Is there something missing here now?
Is seeking still on?
Yes seeking is on. Don't feel crystal clarity. Don't even feel that clarity I had last Monday. If I sit for an hour and inspect all the questions you asked I can come close, but it's not daylight clear.
Is there someone or something in charge of life?
Is there an experiencer added to experience?
I do remember that I've seen self being only in thoughts and I do remember I could see how all is knowing of experiences. But not now. Ahh it's frustrating. I feel especially tired of this today.

Thanks for following up,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:32 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,
Attention is on thoughts big time of the day and lightness and okayness is gone. There is some frustration and confusion.
Are you measuring your seeing by the presence or absence of lightness and okayness?
Are these by-products the signs if a self illusion is recognized for what it is, or not?
Are these by-products needed in order to see things how actually are?


Let’s go back to the basics.

Are you the thinker of thoughts?
Is there a thinker at all?


Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:47 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,
Are you measuring your seeing by the presence or absence of lightness and okayness?
No I’m not. Those are different things, but it seem to correlate.
Are these by-products the signs if a self illusion is recognized for what it is, or not?
Yes those are byproducts and I consider them signs.
Are these by-products needed in order to see things how actually are?
Not needed. But much welcomed.
Are you the thinker of thoughts?
Feels like that most of the day now. It’s difficult to see thoughts as container and not get absorbed into content. Certainly I can see there is no maker or making process of thoughts. Seemingly random thoughts appear stay, occupy attention and disappear.
Is there a thinker at all?
There is in thoughts and seems it is still believed.

Thanks, Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:00 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,

today I tried many times a day to notice thoughts before they appear. Most of the time it is waking up from the thoughts as I continue it's becoming easier and I catch some thoughts as they appear. That creates some lightness and relief probably from not having attention absorbed.

I will continue with this exercise. It's good.

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:28 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,

That’s good, just continue with this for a while. This ability to notice thoughts will help with looking and investigating.
Please keep me updated.

Vivien

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:38 pm
by cojetoto
Hi Vivien,

I continued noticing thoughts as they come. While not always successful in catching thought as it come, I noticed that all that is left is just experiences as they are. I noticed that there is no seeking and no question "what is this". It seems answered. There is calmness and stillness in that. I will continue with noticing thoughts.

Thanks,
Peter

Re: Where else is it hiding?

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:27 am
by Vivien
Hi Peter,
I continued noticing thoughts as they come. While not always successful in catching thought as it come, I noticed that all that is left is just experiences as they are.
Yes :) please continue noticing thoughts.
I noticed that there is no seeking and no question "what is this". It seems answered. There is calmness and stillness in that.
Exactly.
I just wrote a blog post yesterday about seeking and wanting answers to our questions. You might find it useful.
https://fadingveiling.com/2020/10/01/se ... r-answers/

Just notice that all there ever is is what is happening here now.
Even when there are thoughts about some other time or other place, those thoughts are also appearing here-and-now.
There is nothing that is not here and not now. It’s simply impossible.
There is nowhere else to go or be, then here and now.

Vivien