Re: Where else is it hiding?
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:43 pm
All right Peter, stay with these questions.
Liberation Unleashed Forum The Gate
It seems like that. When bodily sensations were not present the thought of "me" was only a thought. It felt ordinary. Unimportant.So are you saying that the seeming solidness of the thought ‘me’ comes when there is a sensation is present at the same time?
I'm not 100% sure about this. It is subtle and hard to observe, but it seems there is a feeling in head and maybe face. Some feeling in chest. And lastly around stomach. If I need to be precise, I found some tingling and pressure in the head, face and chest. Some tension around stomach. I think I could observe at certain times it was combination of the thought "me" and that awareness of body created together an idea "this is me". There was a component of feeling this body, "this body is me". When the bodily sensations were not present (or maybe just not combined), the thought of "me" was ordinary.Find the sensation which supposed to be the ‘feeling of me’ or the ‘sense of me’.
Where is this feeling / sensation is located in the body?
Today I was not able to investigate these. They were not creating any strong sensations and memories somehow lost that ability to create a feeling of me. I guess maybe because I tried so many times to bring them up, somehow they become more ordinary? Only guessing.Yes. So what happens here is that with a memory that triggers guilt, there are unpleasant contracted sensations in the body. And these sensations are being mistaken to be a solid real me.
This seems to be the case, also I think even more time and focus could be useful for me to investigate this.Just notice that all seeming realness and solidness of the me comes from sensations.
All right Peter, then please stay with these for a few more days. Go deep :) and keep me updated.This seems to be the case, also I think even more time and focus could be useful for me to investigate this.
Dear Peter, but isn’t the fact of not being able to find it is the sing of there being no solid self in reality?Anyhow I feel stuck and do not know what to do. I tried during the day. I tried in the morning, noon and afternoon. I tried to meditate to calm down and stabilize attention, but without luck. I can find the "me-thought" as a generic thought, but not as the original real, solid, "me" as before. Thus I'm not able to verify in experience if the solidness/realness is because of bodily sensations.
Yes, definitely it is a sign.Dear Peter, but isn’t the fact of not being able to find it is the sing of there being no solid self in reality?
Well I did not see "me" before easily. It took some effort to "find it" and then to figure out it's not what it seems. Hence I'm just trying to be honest and diligent.Do you have to work hard to find some sort of unicorn in the room in order to access that there is no real and solid unicorn in the room?
I'm sceptic. Perception can be deceptive on so many levels. Sceptic thought says that not finding something does not mean it is not there. Of course if there is an honest and sufficient effort made to verify then for all practical purposes it can be concluded it's not there.Or the not-finding it is the finding of there being no real unicorn there?
I was assuming I can still "see" the solid "me" in the form I described earlier:What is it that you would actually want to find what you could investigate if it’s solid or not?
No solidity. True.Isn’t the me is present whenever there is a sentence with the word ‘me’ in it?
Is there any solidity to this word?
Honestly don't know. Just making sure. I do not know how it should be, what should I expect and where should this get. (Or at least trying to be open about this, like a blank paper).What else do you expect to find in order to recognize that there is no solid inherent me anywhere, only the idea of it?
Please don’t just agree with it. If there is still doubt, then there is still doubt, so our work is not done yet :)So I would conclude - don't see any solid/real "me" anywhere. It's just thoughts, bodily sensations.
:) I think it was benefical to look more today. It is becoming more natural to see some aspects.Please don’t just agree with it. If there is still doubt, then there is still doubt, so our work is not done yet :)
No. I cannot find anything. Sensations, thoughts, actions of body, "attention movements" all is happening on its own. At times it feels like sailing in a stream. Everything is just smoothly unfolding. More I look more natural it becomes. I still think I can look more.Is there anything that does not happen automatically?
There is no doing. I do not see any. Fingers are typing on the keyboard on their own, just moving. Thoughts with words and intention appears on their own. Action then unfolds.Is there anything that needs your doing? Or everything is just happening?
Nothing. I simply am here. Now.What do you do in order to be?
Nothing. It's completely effortless seeing. I'm not starting it nor I can finish seeing. I cannot stop seeing. I'm not doing seeing. Sight is just happening.What do you do in order to see?
Is there a slight impression I moved attention to hearing? I'm trying to check. Not sure. Try repeatedly. No, there is a thought with intention to focus on hearing. Then sounds appear. More prominent, louder and clearer. I do nothing of that. but it is not super obvious.What do you do in order to hear?
Happening on its own.What do you do in order to feel? What do you do in order to taste and smell?
Absolutely nothing, they appear like bubbles. Seemingly random, on their own. Stay and then pop. Sometimes there is absorption to thought content. Mistaken for reality.What do you do for thoughts to be?
Nothing, I see the body, I feel sensations of body. All appear on its own.What do you do in order for the body to be?
Let’s look into this.Is there a slight impression I moved attention to hearing? I'm trying to check. Not sure. Try repeatedly. No, there is a thought with intention to focus on hearing. Then sounds appear. More prominent, louder and clearer. I do nothing of that. but it is not super obvious.
It seems to "move" automatically. There is some experience in attention, then there is another one. Then another one. It can shift rapidly or slowly.Is there something moving attention or is it going to the next thing automatically?
Nope, no mover. Like with anything else. It just happens. There is no "me" moving it.If it seems to be a mover, then try to locate it. Where is it? Can you find a person, a me moving attention?
It looks like moving by itself. It just happens. No action of moving by anything else.What is that moves attention? Is there anything moving it? Or does it move by itself?
.It seems to "move" automatically. There is some experience in attention, then there is another one. Then another one. It can shift rapidly or slowly
No it is definitely moving on its own. Same as thoughts, sensations. Basically all is unfolding automatically. Sensations, thoughts, actions of body, attention. It is at times as being carried by stream.Is attention SEEMINGLY moving automatically, or it’s ACTUALLY moving automatically?